THE CATHOLIC KNIGHT: I spoke with an Orthodox priest today. Both of us living in the Bible Belt as given us an insight on the Baptist-Pentecostal matrix for how Scripture is typically interpreted. He said something to me that will stick, and I hope to soon find an opportunity to use it on some of my Protestant brethren.
He said that when he talks with Baptists and Pentecostals, and they complain about the Orthodox (and Catholic) position on Mary, he simply asks them a question. "Who is the most blessed woman in your life?" The answer is often a mother or a wife. To which he responds: "The Scriptures tell us that the Mother of our Lord, Mary, is even most blessed among all women (Luke 1:42), and the same Scriptures specifically command us to regard her as so in our own personal lives (Luke 1:48)." So in conclusion, if you want to be a "Biblical Christian" you must regard Mary as more blessed than the most blessed women in your own life, and that means you must think and speak blessedly of her just as much, if not more so, than the most blessed woman in your own life. Otherwise, you're just not keeping with the Bible.
For some reason, I just found this insight profound.
Saturday, November 10, 2007
Protestants and the Blessed Virgin Mary
Topics:
Apologetics,
Catholicism,
Mary,
Orthodoxy,
Protestant
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6 comments:
Yeah...just a bit of friendly advice, I wouldn't if I were you. That is arguably the weakest argument I've ever heard.
It might fly with pentacostals - they have a pretty weak view of scripture already - but I would expect it to flop terribly with all but the weakest of my baptist brethren. Even acknowledging their often functionally low view of scripture these days in many churches.
When Elizabeth said those words, she simply did not mean that she would be worshipped. She did not mean that attributes would be ascribed to her that she would be horrified by were she here today. She did not mean that she would be held up as a co-mediator with Christ.
She meant that she was (in today's common vernacular) "lucky". She was given a great blessing by God, an undeserved outpouring of grace that no-one else in all of history would ever receive. Truly, she was blessed.
However, she is also not "in my life" anymore than Mary Queen of Scots is. In fact, she's less in my life than my grandmother who died only a few years ago. At least I met her.
Mary is a historical figure. An important one to be sure, as the means God used to bring Christ into this world. Yet she is not an active part of our lives today. Yours, yes. I understand why you view her in that way - for you she is as much a part of your daily life as Christ is to ours. It's just not the same for a protestant.
Seriously, some arguments sound really good in your head or when laughing with like-minded fellows but lose their luster when used with someone who doesn't share your perspective.
However, she is also not "in my life" anymore than Mary Queen of Scots is.
I don't think Jesus would say that.
Mary is a historical figure.
Maybe to some of us she is, but to Jesus he called her "mother" which means much more than a mere fact on a historical book.
Blessed Mary was part of Jesus's life everyday for 30 years. And whomever is important to Jesus's day-to-day life is very important to me.
I don't think Jesus would say that.
Well, given that both Christ and Mary are in heaven it's difficult to say for sure. He might say otherwise, because they are together - but it's hardly the point.
Maybe to some of us she is, but to Jesus he called her "mother" which means much more than a mere fact on a historical book.
No - it really doesn't. It means Mary gave birth to him, same as the rest of us and our mothers.
Blessed Mary was part of Jesus's life everyday for 30 years. And whomever is important to Jesus's day-to-day life is very important to me.
Really? Then where is the "Rosary" to Joseph? Do you regularly pray to his brothers and sisters?
On a more substantial point what was truly important to Christ every day was the Scriptures and God and His glory and Christ's purpose on the earth.
If you truly cared about what was important to Christ the last thing you would be doing is saying prayers to Mary and ascribing glory which belongs to him alone to Mary.
It means Mary gave birth to him, same as the rest of us and our mothers.
I guess this is something lost to many secularized cultures, but the title of "mother" carries so much depth, meaning and honor in other cultures.
"Mother" isn't just a cold fact of "from whose womb you were born from" but it also means the many hours and days of nurturing, cleaning, singing, kissing and cuddling from even before infancy to adulthood. Maybe it is just to the dying West that the concept of "mother" is relegated to a cold biological fact divorced from what all motherhood entails.
Then where is the "Rosary" to Joseph?
Actually, there is a lot of honor due to St. Joseph than you would think. There are a couple Feast Days in his honor. And any dedication to the "Holy Family" is always Jesus, Mary and Joseph (JMJ). There is an actual variant to the Rosary that is dedicated to St. Joseph.
What was truly important to Christ every day was the Scriptures and God and His glory and Christ's purpose on the earth.
Amen!
If you truly cared about what was important to Christ the last thing you would be doing is saying prayers to Mary and ascribing glory which belongs to him alone to Mary.
I think you forget some of the Scriptures in favor of others. Through Christ, we become the adopted brothers and sisters of God. And in doing so, we share in his inheritance, among which is Eternal Life.
No Catholic would ever deny that any merit we have before God was not first won by Christ. But Christ shared in our humanity that we may share in his Glory.
Any glory or merit that Mary has, is because of Christ. Mary's blessedness is because of Christ. And any Saint that is heralded by the Church is a Saint exactly because of Christ's grace acting in their lives.
To Him, be the Honor, the Glory, and the Power Now and from Ages upon Ages. Amen!
Any glory or merit that Mary has, is because of Christ. Mary's blessedness is because of Christ. And any Saint that is heralded by the Church is a Saint exactly because of Christ's grace acting in their lives.
So...then you believe that every "saint" is a co-mediator with Christ, and is worthy of worship by virtue of being joined with him through adoption as sons?
That's a new one by me. I know RCs pray to the dead (saints/etc) but I was not aware they elevated them to the state you do.
Further, your statements about the importance of motherhood is a red herring. I in no way denied that a mother has more value to her children in this life than just giving birth to them. I don't bow down before her and worship her, fashion idols from her image, or pray to her as an intercessor.
So...then you believe that every "saint" is a co-mediator with Christ, and is worthy of worship by virtue of being joined with him through adoption as sons?
Precisely. Why else are we exorted to pray for one another? Why do we ask others to pray for us and we pray for them if we do not share each other's burdens as one body?
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. - Romans 8:15
Confess faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. - James 5:16
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 3:18
It's all scriptural.
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