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THE CATHOLIC KNIGHT: For all the talk of the new English translation of the Roman Missal, many US Catholics will still be faced with some daunting liturgical problems even after the vernacular reform is put into place in Advent of 2011.
Above we have a side-by-side comparison. Sadly, YouTube did not have a complete Anglican Use mass on file so I was forced to provide two different formats. Hopefully, they will both show up on your computer and you can run them side by side. If not, I'm sorry. Formatting problems leave me just as helpless as you.
As you can see the video on the left comes from an Anglican Use mass, while the video on the right is of a more typical Roman Rite mass according to the ordinary form. Which one do you think a growing number of Catholics are interested in?
Roman Catholics, of the general Roman Rite, will likely be free to join Anglican Use ordinariate parishes without being under the ordinary bishop. They can maintain their diocesan status, under the diocesan bishop, but actively participate as a member in the Anglican ordinariate parish. My guess is, the way things are being run in the US Catholic Church, a whole lot of them will.
17 comments; post here:
Are you sure that many Latin Rite Catholics will leave the only Mass they have known for over 40 years?
I know that there are many Catholics who are very unhappy with the abuses and innovations, but some seem to have no true understanding of the Real Presence, or at least by the behavior that is exhibited in Mass.
Many think shaking hands means your loving your neighbor, but do these same people go up to strangers and greet them after Mass or just leave in a hurry.
There is no mystery left in the NO today. Even in more traditional parishes something is lacking. But do the nominal Catholics really care? I don't know.
How will Catholics learn about the Anglican Use parishes, they seem to be well hidden as is the Ordinariate offered by Pope Benedict. Most priest aren't even aware of what is happening within the Church.
I pray that whatever liturgy will be decided on for the Anglicans that it will be as beautiful or more so than they have so far been allowed to offer. Their liturgy actually brings your soul closer to God and although the NO is suppose to be a feel good liturgy I think that the AU liturgy really makes you feel the best without any gimmicks.
Sir Knight,
My story is simple and common. I was a lapsed Catholic, found a wonderful woman (a nominal Episcopalian) and married and became active in a Episcopal church.
The first thought I had, after being away from the Catholic church for 10 years or more, was how reverent and beautiful the Episcopal service was. It has so much to offer, it was far more 'catholic' than the Church I had left.
The Catholic Church has spent the last couple of decades trying to be relevant and have thus done everything in it's power to convert it into a protestant 'mega church'. We have lost so much!!!
Mark Carney
I suspect there will initially be a lot of fear and uncertainty among general Roman Catholics in regards to the Anglican Use liturgy. Because of the current situation, the use of bells and incense may be totally foreign to them, not to mention the ad orientem posture, kneeling for communion and the use of old English. Of course just the word "Anglican" will probably be enough to scare some off for a while. Even though these parishes will be officially designated as "Catholic" there may be a small subtitle of "Anglican Use" or "Anglican ordinariate". Skeptical Roman Catholics will fear these things at first.
However, for everyone there comes a breaking point. It the Roman Rite parishes do not avail themselves of the opportunity to reform with the implementation of the new Missal translation, they will find themselves in a peculiar situation in just a few years. Anglican ordinariate parishes will crop up in every major city. Word will eventually get out, through word of mouth if nothing else, that the liturgy is beautiful and reverent - like how things were before Vatican II - but all in English. Catholics will get curious and visit. Some will come again and stay. Others will wander off and spread the word. Over time the tidal shift will be inevitable. Between the Traditional Latin Mass, the Anglican Use and those few priests willing to reform in the general Roman Rite, it won't be long before the only people going to these watered down protestantized masses will be those who have actively chosen to do so. No longer will Roman Catholics be captive to the whims of their local diocesan parish.
I hope and pray that you are right,Sir Knight. I hope the growth of AU parishes will case many in the NO parishes to demand better services than the crap we have now. Scotju
Sir Knight, there is only one thing which can restore liturgical sanity, and that is the total scrapping of the novus ordo, ripping it out root and branch. But so far, not even B16 is willing to do that. As long as the "liturgical experts" are in charge at the chancery level, we must all return to the nearest EF church. Pete Frey
Sir Knight,
You just said it better than I ever could!
To Anonymous #1, I would answer your first question in the affirmative. I think Latin Rite Catholics will hear about this option one way or another, they will check it out, and they will stay. This phenomenon will be particularly acute in areas like mine.
I live in a suburban county of Nashville. It is among the most politically conservative parts of this land. But despite having an orthodox, Tradition-loving bishop, this diocese is pretty darn liberal. The presbyterate is liberal through and through, of course with a few exceptions. (Have you been paying attention to the recent scandal with Fr. Joe Pat Breen?) Many of my friends are absolutely fed up with their liturgical options here. Most parishes either have liturgies or facilities that leave very little to be desired. While the average Catholic might have faith individually, the corporate practice of it here does not resemble anything remotely traditional. If an Ordinariate parish popped up in this neck of the woods, it would be absolutely overrun with refugees from the current liturgical chaos in diocesan parishes.
FWIW, I'm not making the generalization that political conservatives will become orthodox Catholics. I just think that those with the political philosophy of conservation tend to be more interested in conserving religious tradition as well.
I did a quick web search, and there seems to be only 11 Anglican Use parishes in the USA since 1980.
My question is, will there be more Anglican Use parishes, as you predict, or will the number stay low with this not ever becoming a viable option for orthodox Catholics sick of modernist liturgies? (also, despite all the hype, there are still only a very small number of parishes offering the Extraordinary Form Mass on a regular basis).
A solution I think should be pursued is the idea of Anglican Use priests and Extraordinary Form priests (FSSP, etc) "teaming up" to take over closed parishes, or create new parishes, with the EF priest as pastor and the AU priest as assistant pastor, where the parish would offer all EF and AU masses (but no ordinary form masses).
Anonymous, your idea about AU and EF priests teaming up is an awesome one! I would certainly love to see more of that and Traditional Catholics have no idea how big of an ally they're about to get in the Anglican Catholics.
There is something you're overlooking though. You're right in saying there are only a handful of AU parishes in the United States. This is because the AU Pastoral Provision was somewhat of an experiment established by Pope John Paul II back in 1980. AU parishes cannot be erected without the permission of the local diocesan bishop, and that my friend is the reason why there are only a handful of them. Most diocesan bishops are reluctant to give their permission, and some are dead set against it. However, that all changes now with Pope Benedict XVI's apostolic constitution Anglicanorum Coetibus. Now an ordinary bishop will be appointed to oversee all Anglican Catholic parishes in a region. He will of course try to work with the diocesan bishops his territory overlaps but he is not required to get their permission to establish a parish. This changes everything. Furthermore, the apostolic constitution was originally designed for the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC), who's US affiliate is the Anglican Church in America. (ACA). The ACA consists of about 100 parishes throughout the United States. Most of these will enter the ordinariate and be united with the Anglican Use parishes under one ordinary bishop. That puts about one Anglican Catholic parish in every major US city once the ordinariate is set up. In those areas where no affiliate parish presently exists, or the particular ACA parish chose not to enter the ordinariate, a new Anglican Catholic parish can be erected at any time if people of like-minded interest ban together and start a prayer group, making their presence known to the ordinary bishop.
So this thing stands to be a lot bigger than you think in a very short time.
Something that concerns me is whether the rank and file laity want or will support either AU parishes or the new translation of the ordinary form.
Example: in my neighborhood there are 4 Catholic parishes. I am lucky because one of the parishes (to protect the innocent, I'll call it "St. Tradition") celebrates one extraordinary form mass every Sunday. But, consistantly, only 20 to 30 people attend the extradordinary form (although it is a good cross section...elderly, kids, and young adults all represented). The rest of the masses are ordinary form, and many more people go to them.
One of the other parishes (I'll call "St. Feminist") is one of the most liberal parishes in the state. The founding pastor was a proud dissenter who had altar girls as far back as the early 70s, and who invited the congregation to say parts of the Eucharistic Prayer in unison with him, and who allowed Jesus to be portrayed by a woman. St. Feminist grew to be the largest parish in the area. Although the founding pastor is now dead, and the parish is not quite as liberal anymore, it is still very liberal, and all the masses at St Feminist are almost standing room only.
As for the other two parishes, they rank in between. The one that is more orthodox, like St. Tradition, usually has fewer people attend mass, while the other that is more like St. Feminist usually has more mass attenders.
This could be a big problem that is currently flying under everyone's radar.
These Anglican Use priests will be just as legitimate Catholic priests as the ones in FSSP and I would think that it would appear to be an insult to say that they don't have the right to be a pasor of their parishes if joined with a FSSP parish.
If in some way they could both be pastors over their own flock, that might work, but also placing both together would lessen the number of decent parishes to choose from.
There are some Anglicans coming into the Ordinariate who already own their own buildings.
It is a complicated issue and for now the most important point is bringing in as many Anglicans as possible. Some of their priests still have doubts about issues of future men interested in the priesthood not being allowed to marry before ordination. They might already be married and will have no problem, but they are thinking of future men. Since married priests are the norm for Anglicans some might hold back from becoming part of the Ordinariate.
There are several points of the Apostolic Constitution that are not spelled out specifically and this is one of those.
First let us get the Ordinariates up and running as the people waiting get discouraged. There are many Anglicans who are against this and do cause pain for those who want to take the road to Rome.
Also at this time many don't know exactly what procedures they must take if they are individuals and want to join. Many of the Catholic Bishops are not helpful at all.
We Catholics must be charitable towards our future brothers and sisters as they will be bringing "treasures" as the Pope has said into the Church.
Let's hope this works! Scotju
"Works" is a relative term. The success of the Holy Father's plan has nothing to do with bringing back the "good ol' days" of yesteryear. That is impossible now. But rather preserving a remnant through the coming rebellion and schism that will be the ultimate result of the modernist revolution started by activists after Vatican II and the new Roman Missal.
Rebellion has already begun, and it will get worse, leading to schism. What's important is that faithful Catholics have a place to go - a safe haven loyal to the pope. So far the EF and AU will be on the front lines of that safe haven in the United States, followed by a few faithful priests of the ordinary form.
Roman Catholics and Anglicans are surprised that the Anglican Use and interest the Ordinariates are popping out not just in the USA, Canada, England,Australia and countries which are traditionally European, it is popping out in Asian countries where the Anglican presence is small but significant.
Check out
anglicanusephilippines.blogspot.com
Ben, that's a very good point. A lot of people currently don't realize the impact of Anglicanorum Coetibus to reach beyond the English-speaking church. You see, the Anglican Communion has multiple translations of the Anglican liturgy, spanning most of the world's languages. Anglican churches are plentiful in Africa, Asia and even Central and South America. Because of this, traditional Anglicans exist in these countries as well, and that means some will come into the ordinariates. Once that happens the Anglican Ordinariates will become a multiple-language arm of the Catholic Church, directly competing with the Novus Ordo vernacular translations around the world.
Yes, this stands to become much bigger than anyone realizes at this time.
I do not know if this will prove as much of a phenomenon as some might wonder. The whole structure of the process does not seem to be forward-looking. It looks forward to incorporating ex-Anglicans into a Roman superstructure, but as a practical matter, going forward, these would become Roman people. In particular, while a formerly Anglican married priest might become ordained, under the Roman religion, no future such Anglican married priests would be allowed. There only would be Roman priests, at that point. From a Roman perspective, there are very practical reasons to shy away from married priests, even though Orthodox ones are, including Byzantine Catholic priests, in the Old World. However, even Byzantine priests are not allowed to marry in the New World, and that seems to be what would be required of Anglicans, a kind of "Byzantine" priest in the New World, who would not be able to marry, even though Tradition always has honored married priests elsewhere. From an Anglican perspective, this would be a Faustian bargaining away of Anglican religion, as such, in favor of abandoning everything the Reformation agonized so much to gain, simply to fall back under Roman dictatorship, again. Some might fall for that, but most will conclude that Rome has no real interest in communion with Anglicans as Anglicans. There is nothing in this "ordinariate" than show, an opportunistic attempt to exploit people striving to solve problems.
Gabriel, you have presented no evidence to back any of those claims and what you have given is pure speculation from your obviously anti-Roman point of view. Everything I have heard from the insiders forming the ordinariate is quite the opposite and the tradition of allowing for married priests (on a case by case basis) is designed to be perpetual.
To increase cooperation between AU and EF congregations, as suggested above, perhaps the Anglican Ordinariate seminarists could be trained at the Priest Fraternity of Saint Peter's seminary in Nebraska, where their basic philosophical and theological studies could be supplemented by classes in the Anglican patrimony.
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