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| Green portions show loss of Palestinian territory since 1946. |
(Breitbart) - Priests in the Holy Land used their sermons on Sunday to give their blessing to the Palestinians' bid for United Nations membership.THE CATHOLIC KNIGHT: I know this position will be highly unpopular among Americans and Israelis, but The Catholic Knight supports this move, and here are the reasons why.
The retired Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Michel Sabbah, the first Palestinian to hold the post since the Crusades, was to preach in the Roman Catholic church in the northern West Bank city of Nablus.
A joint statement by Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran priests pledged their "support for the diplomatic efforts being deployed to win international recognition for the State of Palestine... on the June 1967 borders with Jerusalem as our capital."
The priests went further than their bishops, who in a statement this week confined themselves to a call for intensified prayer and diplomatic efforts ahead of the Palestinian membership request, to be sent to the UN Security Council on Friday.
"Palestinians and Israelis should exercise restraint, whatever the outcome of the vote at the United Nations," the bishops said.
"We call upon decision-makers and people of good will to do their utmost to achieve the long-awaited justice, peace and reconciliation between Israelis and Palestinians....
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First, the Palestinians (both Muslim and Christian) have been jerked around by Israel for two decades now. They've been told repeatedly they will get their independence, but for every one step forward, two are taken back. All the while Israelis continue to build illegal 'settlements' (i.e. 'colonies') on land promised to the Palestinians. Look, I am partially Native American. I fully understand what colonization is. This is how Europeans take land away from indigenous people. Every time a new 'settlement' ('colony') is built on disputed occupied territory, Israel renegotiates the terms of the peace process, proposing a smaller territory for Palestine and a larger portion for Israel, saying 'look, we already have people living there, we can't kick them out of their homes.' This is a joke, but not the funny kind, and it reminds me a great deal of what happened to my Cherokee ancestors a century and a half ago. The Palestinian people (both Muslims and Christians) have been living there for centuries. They've gone under various rule. Once they were part of Jordan. Before that they were part of the British Empire. Before that they were part of the Ottoman Empire, and before that the Mamluks and Crusaders. Ethnically they are Arab and Egyptian, culturally they are a mixture of Muslim and Eastern Christian. After the fall of the Roman Empire, they were primarily Christians, until the 14th century. A small minority of Palestinian (non-Israeli) Jews have always lived in the region, numbering about 4% of the population. Many of the Jews from antiquity fled this region after a revolution gone bad in 136 AD. Of those that stayed behind, many converted to Christianity. Only a tiny minority (about 4%) continued to practice Judaism.
Second, the Palestinian people (i.e. people directly descended from those who lived in this area prior to the establishment of the State of Israel), are culturally and politically distinct from the Israeli citizens. Israelis are primarily Jews of European and Russian descent, who immigrated to the region after the horrible events of World War II. They are culturally European and Russian. Their politics reflect this as well. About 80% of Israeli citizens are Jews (European or Russian descent), and a little under 20% are Arabs (Muslim or Christian). In contrast, the Palestinian territories consist of 80% Arabs (Muslims and Christians), 17% Jewish and 3% Other. What we have here are two completely different nations, and they have demonstrated for decades that they cannot live together. We can point fingers and blame all we want, but it doesn't change the fact that so long as Israel rules this occupied region, there will be endless conflict. This era of perpetual violence between Israelis and Palestinians must end.
Third, political secession has always been the most reasonable and practical solution to problems such as these. The United States of America seceded from the British Empire and established itself as an independent Union over issues less than these. Norway peacefully seceded from Sweden over issues far less than these. Political secession of the State of Palestine from the State of Israel makes the most logical and effective path toward peace. Only paranoid empires, filled with greed, will stop a peaceful democratic secession through military aggression. Two examples of this being the British Empire in 1776 and the American Empire in 1861. The question is; will Israel follow the British and American example of ruthless imperialism, or will she behave in a more civilised manner like Sweden?
Fourth, the State of Israel itself was fully recognised by the U.N. on May 11, 1949, the exact same process being requested by the Palestinian people for a Palestinian state.
Fifth, the pope himself has acknowledged that the Palestinian people have a right to their own homeland, just as much as the Israeli people.
Sixth, Catholics and Orthodox around the world are supporting this measure, if for no other reason than divine justice mandates it.
Seventh, the sole reason for overwhelming American support of Israel is the popular Evangelical Christian heresy called 'Dispensation Theology' (or 'Dispensationism') which asserts that God has two covenants running simultaneously -- one for the Christians and another for the Jews. Because of this, Dispensationism asserts that the Old Testament promises made to the genetic descendants of ancient Israel are still in full force. Dispensationism does not recognise those promises as having been fulfilled a thousand-fold in the Church. Dispensationism does not recognise the New Testament teaching that the Church is Israel, and Israel is the Church. Dispensationism does not recognise that the divine promise given to Abraham, ('I will bless those who bless you' Genesis 12:4) extends to all of his descendants (physical and spiritual), which includes not only Jews through Isaac, but also Arabs through Ishmael, and Christians through Jesus Christ. Dispensationism only applies this passage to the Jews. Therefore, many American Evangelicals (and some misguided Catholics) are under the impression that the modern State of Israel represents 'the Jews' in the most literal sense, and therefore we must 'bless' Israel in order to be blessed by God, otherwise according to the passage of Scripture, we shall be cursed by God. This is a gross perversion of the Biblical text. Nowhere in the entire Bible does God command Christians to bless a political secular state, made entirely by UN recognition, and any abuses of power it may commit against Christians and others, for the purpose of artificially creating an ethnically Jewish nation. Dispensationism is heresy! It is almost an exclusively American doctrine, promoted almost exclusively by American Evangelical televangelists. The Catholic Knight CONDEMNS it.
Eighth, I suffer from no illusions. The United States of America has painted itself into a corner. We should have remained neutral in this matter, and politically distanced ourselves from Israel decades ago. That didn't happen. While the presidency of Barack Obama did not help this situation, let us not forget that the road to Palestinian statehood was supported by both President Clinton and President G.W. Bush. We have supported political secession of the Palestinians from Israel, and we have promoted it, under all three presidents. Now our chickens have come home to roost. We can either man up to it, and vote in favour of a Palestinian State, or else we can continue to weasel around, fearing the political backlash of American Evangelicals and Jews. The time has come to put our vote where our mouth is. Either we support a Palestinian state or we don't. Guess what America! IT'S TRUTH TIME.
23 comments; post here:
Sorry Sir Knight, but I'm going to have to disagree with what you say for once. I don't support the bad things that Israel does, but at the same time I highly doubt christians will fare any better under muslim rule. In fact, I'd assume they'd be much worse. You may not like Israel, but it's a useful thorn in the side of the Islamic world of the middle east.
Thank you. Whenever you post about this subject, it helps me, little by litte, to overcome the evangelical mindset that I had unknowingly adopted despite being a cradle catholic.
Let's hope if a Palestinian country is established that it is not split into two parts with Israel between the two parts - as that would be a continuous thorn in the side of the Palestinians who would, like the Irish, would want to have a united homeland.
Anonymous, I'm not so sure using Israel as a tool to dig into the sides of the Arab world is a good idea. If you ask me, it seems to create more problems than it solves. In fact, I'm not so sure it solves any problems. America has been Israel's enabler for the past thirty to forty years, allowing Israel to get away with all sorts of misdeeds because her best friend -- America -- sits on the UN security council.
It's not that I like, or dislike, the State of Israel. In my book it's just another country, no different than Argentina or South Africa. If we were not so tied up in perpetual war with Arab Muslims, I might not even care what happens to Israel or what she does. But the problem is the Secular Republic of Israel has become a thorn in the side of the whole world. Her abuses of the occupied terrirories have effectively united a previously divided Arab world against her. This united (previously divided) Arab world now works its political pressure around the globe, controlling oil prices in the West. To maintain this status quo, America has engaged in multiple Middle Eastern wars, and spilled barrels upon barrels of American blood. We could say it has become a blood for oil exchange. The cycle of violence has to stop. Granted, only the Israelis and Palestinians can stop it, but we could help them along by refusing to take sides any longer. If the United States cannot vote in favour of a Palestinian state, than we should at least abstain from a vote all together.
Now as for the Christians living in Palestine, you may be right about that, or maybe not. How are we to know? Furthermore, the Christians living in Palestine seem to unanimously support independence. So who are we to tell them otherwise? They live with these Muslims. They work with them. Their children play together in the streets. So who are we -- as Americans -- to tell them 'excuse me, but we're going to vote against this because we know what's best for you'. Do you honestly believe that we, as American Christians, know those Muslims over there better than our Palestinian Christian brethren do?
Sir Knight!. I agree with you that the Palestinians need and should be granted Statehood. It was not of their choosing that the powers that be back in the 40's decided to move anyone and everyone out of the now Isrell area and make it a state of Isreal. If you profess to be Catholic, than you must and have to follow the Vicar of Christ on earth, the Pope and what he teaches. Christ decreed that to all when he haded the the keys to the Kingdom of heaven to Peter the first Pope. He is here in place of Christ. It is saying something that the Catholic bishops and the priests in that area are saying that Palestine should be recognized as a state as well.
Atheists worldwide have used the utter ignorant behavior of US Evangelicals to malign all Christians in the media as being irrational. Pope Benedict has recently stated that a Christian must be rational in order to know truth. There is no reason that Israel and Palestine can't both exist other than Israel's lack of willingness to cooperate.
I have mixed feelings about this because at one time, ole Bill Clinton had a pretty good deal brokered with Arafat and Israel, I mean it was a sweet deal for Palestine, and Arafat walked away. I know Arafat is dead, but his ilk still control the PA, which is very close to Hamas, the Hezbos, etc., and let us not forget the all peaceful Muslim Brotherhood.
Look. I pray that if this happens (statehood), that everyone takes their guns and bombs and goes home and lives their lives. They can go to mosque on Friday, temple on Saturday and Mass on Sunday...a veritable three day weekend. I would love to see this happen......but will it? I am sorry, but we have been bitten by the Muslim bug way too many times...until they prove themselves trustworthy, I will always keep one eye on them. I trust them as much as I trust the US government...how's that for a comparison?
Deo Vindice!
Let us remember that the Palestinian people and the Palestinian leadership are two different entities. It is only the plight of the people that gives the opportunity for these wretched leaders to gain power and do what they do. It's sort of like Nazi Germany. Germans were good people during that time. They were not evil. But evil leadership arose in their country because of the terrible circumstances they found themselves in after World War I. It's the same with the Palistinians. The circumstances they find themselves in under Israeli rul are so bad, that they will turn to anyone who promises help -- even wicked villains like Yasser Arafat and Hamas. To prevent these knuckleheads from gaining power in a real Palestinian state, there must be a temporary government to last one or two years. During that time money should be poured in from the West to rebuild their infrastructure, schools and hospitals. (This would be a great time for Christian missionary activity). Then a real election would be held, wherein the people could vote with full bellies, warm clothes, their children in school and their homes repaired. This gives the opportunity to make the most rational decisions. Does this guarantee they will do the right things? No. There are no guarantees in life. Americans had everything prior to the Civil War, and yet we elected Lincoln.
Well I would have to disagree with you in this one. I have lived and studied in Jerusalem and while I don't pretend to understand perfectly the situation, I can tell you that there is no chance for peace unless a major conversion to Christ comes about.
The "Palestinian" agenda is to destroy the state of Israel, and despite its mistakes, Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, providing equal rights for all its citizen. The debate about the 1967 is difficult, but it is not accurate to talk about "occupation". Immediately after the 6 day war, Israel proposed to return the land legally in its possession in exchange of peace.
As I stated earlier. there is no hope at the human level. Muslims are deceptive and the Israeli society is embedded in sin (abortion, homosexuality and corruption).
Jesus is the only answer...
I suspect the solution will come eventually, and Jews will remain in the land, but I also suspect that neither the state of Israel nor Palestine will be part of that solution. I have nothing to offer as evidence other than my belief in the prophecies of the saints, but if I understand them correctly, in the end, there will be no Israel and no Palestine, but one united Kingdom of Jerusalem that will be ruled by a Christian king for many years, and there will be peace and prosperity in the land, until he is supplanted by the Antichrist.
It should not be the policy of the UN or the US to build nations. This building nation stuff has caused the world only trouble since1919.
To compare the Chereokee to the Israeli is a stretch. No one called for the irradication of the Cherokee.
The foundation of a palestinian state is the destruction of Jew.
No. Actually the historical foundation of the PLO and Hamas has always been the destruction of the Zionist State Of Israel not 'the Jews.' Remember, large numbers of Jews lived in Palestine for decades before 1949. They lived side-by-side with Arab Muslims and Christians in peace with no significant problems. The Palestinian Muslims I know, and I do know a few, tell me they only want to go back to that. These are honest men and I've known them for years. I also know some Palestinian Christian families who say the exact same thing. I have no reason the believe any of these people are lying to me.
The problem with the State of Israel is that the government insists that Israel be recognised as a racially 'Jewish State' in effect saying that the dominant culture is European and Russian Jewry not Arab. This has always been the crux of the problem. Why is it that Arabs were fine with Jews living there before 1949, but then all of a sudden, after 1949 they have his vile hatred for 'the Jews'? Did they all just turn into Nazis overnight? Indeed the Israeli governemnt and Evangelical televangelists would have us beleive that. However, that doesn't make it true. Arabs (both Christians and Muslims) felt slighted by this political move in 1949. Here these European Jews had been living there peacefully as an ethnic monority for years. They were treated almost as guests by the Arab ethnic majority. Then, all of a sudden these European Jews declare themselves independent and create for themselves a European style nation in the middle of a dominant Arab culture. It was sort of like how White European settlers moved into the Smokey Mountains of North Carolina and Tennessee, declared themselves the dominant culture and began the process of 'relocating' the Cherokee half way across the continent -- same mentality, similar results. In the case of the European Jews in Palestine, the Arabs responsed with "who he hell do you think you are!?!" and the rest is history.
I do agree with you however, that his whole business of nation building has been a disaster, and it should be stopped. The only problem is, the UN already built the State of Israel based on the 1967 borders, and no other nation has recognised Israel beyond those borders. So there you go. Either the Palestinians should get their own state, or the West Bank should go back to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt. Anything other than that is injustice, and to perpetuate injustice on the fear of what others 'might' do if you do what is right, is nothing but an excuse. The United States should either vote for Palestinian statehood, or else don't vote at all and divest ourselves from Israel -- making ourselves neutral on this matter.
All the while we HAVE TO listen to our Chrisitian brethren who live there. We cannot pretend to know more than they do on the situation. If we vote against what they want, with the attitude of 'we know what's best for you' than we put our ignorance and our arrogance on display.
Ok Sir Knight, you are correct using Israelis as mere tools too distract muslims isn't very catholic. When I was talking about not liking Israel, I didn't mean you personally not liking Israel, I just meant in a general sense. And you are correct, it is completely up to our christian brethren in Palestine, as long as it isn't just some poor attempt at winning favour with palestinian muslims.
However, there are three things I do not fully agree with:
1) As kind a deed as it is to send food, education and whatever else to Palestine, I am highly doubtful the deeds will be remembered too long. Especially if the Muslim Brotherhood have anything to do with it.
2) Unless you're going to be extremely subtle about it, christian missionary activity would be a horrible idea. There is no way something like that would be tolerated for long.
3) You say muslims only want to destroy "zionist jews". From what I've seen and heard, all Jews are zionist jews as far as a lot of muslims seem to be concerned. I'm not sure Palestinians is the exception. I know you have talked about how catholics cannot believe in jews and christians both being God's chosen people, but at the same time I really doubt anyone who considers them self a Jew is some sort of zionist.
I respect you're defending Palestinians, and I know Israel has done wrong and it is difficult for me to talk about the situation when I know nothing about palestinian issues; but I wouldn't be too optimistic about the results if statehood is granted. Especially during this "Arab Spring". Call me an extreme pessimist, but I can just see things going to Hell from here.
Thanks for the clarification, and I wouldn't call you a pessimist at all. You are more of a realist in my estimation and we have a lot in common on that. You're probably right in saying it is likely that everything will go to hell from here. It likely will and there is little we can do to stop it. We can however lessen its effects, and by helping the Palestinians get established as a properous state, we can do much to that end. When I spoke of missionary activity I was speaking of material works of mercy more than evangelism. By that I mean, when it comes to the Palestinian Muslims, we should use the Franciscan method of missionary work: 'Evangelise always! And only when necessary, use words'. We should never shun the opportunity to help our fellow man in distress, regardless of what we suspect might be the political or social outcome. Even if they fail to appreciate our efforts, and turn against us in the end, we have done well in our Lord's eyes, and he will not forget this.
You make some very good points Sir Knight. You are right about being merciful and charitable to other people, even if they may spite you for it. And to be honest, I am a bit of a pessimist which is why I tend to be cautious about trusting people on certain issues.
Dear Catholic Knight and Readers,
Please remember the plight of the Palestinian Christian. Prior to 1967, they made up 30% of the wider palestinian population. Their numbers have been decimated during the intervening years between then and now. Evangelical Americans aren't helping either, misioneering with pro israel agendas without recognizing for one second the indigenous Christian population. They neither work with them nor support them. if you hold the Palestinian as untrustworthy, you are holding your Palestinian Christian brother or sister as untrustworthy. Remember, the Marounite, Melchite and Chaldean Rites, among others, are the original Christians. Christianity is 'second hand' to europe and 'third hand' to the 'new World'.
have a care for your Palestinian Christian brethren who receive no support from any side and are conveniently forgotten by the US - Scandelous I say, utterly scandelous, and a reproach upon the US, israel and the West at the very least!!
An upset new convert to Marounite Christianity!!
CK - I agree with your responce to my statements. Leadership is the face of a nation. I also agree with one of the anon's about not getting in the nation building business. The uSA cut it's teeth on the CSA and refined it, along with their fellow Progs at the UN throughout the 20th century.
I would love to see what happens when Netanyahu and Abbas talk today. I pray they come together with a solution, much like you talked about, a united country with the capitol of Jerusalem and Jews, Muslims and Christians living their lives together.
Normally I am in agreement with you on almost every post you submit, but not in this case. There should not be an establishment of a Palestinian state until the ruling party completely divorces its self from Hamas. Hamas is an organization that was formed with the expressed intent to eradicate the Israeli state and its people from the face of the earth. There is no conceivable way there would ever be any peace in the Middle East with a Palestinian nation created thus being dedicated to genocide and Israel in a posture of continual self defense.
Father Bob, thank you for sharing your thoughts here, and I always enjoy having a priest comment.
I am curious however, what do you say of your brother priests in Palestine who are in favour of this measure? They don't seem to be as concerned about Hamas as you are. It is a sincere question. I just would like to know what you think. Thanks! :)
I fully realize that my brother priests in that area have either become insulated to the situation or diplomatically passive. Being an old officer type before the priesthood and having been to Israel traveling for a period of time before ordination one becomes acutely aware that the situation of two sovereign nations existing side by side, with one dedicated to the destruction of the other, is a no win situation all around. What happens is that Hamas fires rockets indiscriminately into Israeli territory killing or destroying whatever is in the impact area. The Israeli Defense Forces then quickly retaliate attempting to knock out, as best they can, the launching sites. Then the Palestinians quickly start screaming bloody murder to the world shouting that the Israeli forces are picking on the poor Palestinian people. We did absolutely nothing and just look what those Jews dogs did to us. And so it goes, Palestinian action and then Israeli reaction until ad infinitum.
I have seen the results of development on the Palestinian side and the Israeli side of land separated only by a barbed wire fence and a mine field. The Israeli side is prosperous, lush and green while the Palestinian side looks like it did when the descendants of Moses first came into the area, with a few exceptions of course. They have the same soil and access to water, which is very important in that area. Yet they fail to utilize what they have. The Palestinians want the whole enchilada, eradicating the Israeli people, men women and children, winner take all.
That is the goal of Hamas and at this point on time that is the goal of the Palestinian government.
Thank you for that perspective father. It was well written and very logical.
Well, I've never been a fan of Bill Clinton, but I think this interview explains everything.
I do think Clinton really wanted a solution to the whole Israeli/Palestinian fiasco, and I think it's safe to say no other president in recent memory worked harder for it. We can question Clinton's motives all we want. Perhaps it really was just to build a legacy for himself, but regardless of those motives, I think it's undeniable that no other president in recent memory wanted peace in the Holy Land so badly, and was willing to back that desire with action. So I will give credit where credit is due, even though I can hardly stomach to look at the man sometimes.
Clinton's appraisal of the current situation is that Netanyahu is a big part of the problem, and always has been, along with Zionist right-wingers in the Likud Party. It is this very situation that has caused the Palestinians to turn to Hamas in desperation, much in the same way the good German people turned to the Nazis in their economic and political desperation following the reparations placed on them by allied forces after World War I.
Mr Knight: You are so right about the impasse Israel&Palestinians.
1- Arafat did not accept any deal offered to him because: There was no "Right to return" in any deal... and without it.... no Palestinians( in the millions) could return to their beloved land wehere they were born.
2- Israel 'the only democratic state there' Not so...
Palestinians born in Jerusalem, cannot have citizenship; if they leave the area... they cannot return!
3- Israelis cannot marry palestinias.
4- after losing almost all their land, would you love the country is doing this to you?
4- etc. etc. etc.
Any more 'unaware' of this tragedy, may read a book written by a member of the Democratic party, Mr George W Ball The Passionate Attachment,1992, where will be found the whole truth about the Palestinian Tragedy.
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