Cardinal Schönborn presides over 'youth mass.'
(Vatican Insider) - It is still causing conflict between Cardinal Christoph Schönborn and dissidents. This wekend, the Archbishop of Vienna spoke out about the risk of a schism in the Austrian Catholic Church.The Episcopate’s leader reinforced his view with regard to the clashes among the clergy, that violation of ecclesiastical celibacy and admission of divorced individuals that have subsequently re-married, back to communion, places dissident priests outside the Church.THE CATHOLIC KNIGHT: Well, I hate to say it, but where discipline is lax, schism is just around the corner. I'll give Cardinal Schönborn this much. He didn't start the problems in Austria. He is not responsible for their genesis. They did however, grow under his watch, and he did little (if anything) to correct them. Spiritually speaking, Austria is in shambles now. The schism has already occurred. The only thing that remains now are the formalities.
The Cardinal warned that those who are promoting the reform manifesto with its slogan “A call to disobedience”, will not succeed in putting the Archdiocese of Vienna on a collision course with the Holy See. “Everything is possible and I am counting on dialogue and cooperation,” the Archbishop said, extending a metaphorical hand but at the same time excluding any possibility of a break with Rome...
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Holy Smokes!! Is this really the same priest who was largely responsible for the new Catechism?
Schönborn, the treacherous heretical pig. And the clergy of austria are really that stupid that they think allowing women priests and priests to marry will solve the problem?
While I'm here, I have a question Sir Knight. One of the complaints of the priests is that remarried (and possibly divorced?) people aren't allowed to receive communion; but what about a child who is born from a relationship where at least one parent has divorced? Are they unable to receive communion also?
Anyway, I would rather see the Pope excommunicate the entire church in austria than give into their demands.
The law of the Church (Canon Law) NEVER imputes upon a child the sins of the parents. So in answer to your question; children of illicit relationships are never banned from receiving any of the sacraments. Any child, from any relationship (no matter how illicit the actions of the parents) has full access to baptism, confirmation, Eucharist, penance, unction, marriage, and even holy orders! It is even possible for such a child to become the pope!
Now as for the parents, that's a different story. While the Church abhors divorce, she recognises that there are some circumstances where it is impossible to avoid. In those situations, the divorced spouse may continue to receive communion, provided he/she does not enter into another sexual relationship. If the divorced spouse actually marries another person, than an annulment of the previous marriage must be obtained before said spouse can begin receiving communion again. This is the law of the Church as I understand it, and this is one of the things the Austrian priests are protesting.
Ah, thank you for that Sir Knight. Especially the part about children. I always wondered about that.
I think recourse to a territorial inderdict should be considered by the Holy See, considering how rampant the heresy and abuses of the Holy Mass are.
The documents of Vatican II on the Holy See's website have a vague tone of being nice to everyone; this fostered a lack of respect for church authority. Niceness can not take precedent over strength, as weakness never produces respect. Those that ordained these disloyal priests were employing typical 60's conciliatory attitudes towards differing views and now the consequences of that are revealed.
@Anonymous "The documents of Vatican II on the Holy See's website have a vague tone of being nice to everyone; this fostered a lack of respect for church authority. Niceness can not take precedent over strength, as weakness never produces respect"
The Truth cannot be sacrificed to spare the feelings of someone. This is uncharitable. They deserve the Truth, even if it hurts. This is charity.
To sacrifice the Truth to spare their feelings leaves them open to spiritual damnation. Such an action is spiritually malicious and falls stupendously short of "love thy neighbour..."
This video shows a mass that is identical to RUF Prayer meetings at American Colleges. The "Reformed University Fellowship" is a Protestant group where the focus of religious practice is prayer and singing 60's style folk songs. Apparently the video shows that some Catholics would rather worship in a Protestant way. The root of the problem is that Catholic worship has not been clearly defined; in business we know that if there are no clear goals then clear objectives can not be achieved.
Therefore, Catholic practice must be clearly defined to be achieved.
The struggle I'm having is that although I find the Protestant hippie type service in the video in very poor taste aesthetically and musically, I'm wondering if God really cares how we worship him? If a person is sincere does He care what the forms are? 2nd, unless Catholic leadership clearly defines the Catholic form of worship how can we expect these teenagers to know?
Since we're on the topic of music at Chruch, I'm wondering if anyone can answer me this: what do the choir get for singing every Sunday? Do they get paid?
The reason I ask is because every summer our choir takes a 3 month "holiday", so the choir seats are obviously empty during this time. However, I've noticed that the amount of people sitting in the pews during this time never increase. In fact, they usually seem emptier.
This brings me to the obvious conclusion that nobody in the choir actually attends mass in the proper sense. So why else would they go if they're not getting paid, unless they've got serious egos?
By the way, I don't clap for the choir anymore. I was told before (possibly from this blog also) that you shouldn't clap for any person at Mass. What more of a reason not to do so when you're dealing with a choir of wolves in sheep's clothing.
I don't know of any choirs that are paid, but I do of some parishes where non-catholic family members are used in a choir if they express interest. Also consider this. Summer months are when many people leave town for vacations. Just some thoughts.
Sir Knight, I'm not questioning people's rights to take a holiday; but you won't see a single choir member at Mass while the official choir holiday is taking place, and then as soon as it's over they all miraculously re-appear. I highly doubt they're all going on 3 month long holidays abroad.
Also, I think having non-catholics perform in a "catholic" choir is one of the biggest jokes, and insults to our Lord, ever. If you have a gathering of non-believers singing songs of worship then what's really the point? Nothing but empty words. Priests really shouldn't allow this sort of nonsense to go on. It would be better to just have no songs and just have whoever's in the pews sing along if they like. That's what we usually do during the choir's absence, and quite frankly the entire Mass feels that much more genuine. I know it sounds overly-dramatic, but the choir actually bother's me now to the point where it almost makes me cringe to listen to them.
Doesn't help that our priest seems to think we were "struggling" without "our" secularist choir.
This is more of a protestant prayer meeting than a Catholic Mass. Why don't these Catholics appreciate their own heritage? Is it because their leaders don't or because secularism is so widespread that they may not even know the difference?
This is a youth mass – presumably a one off? - Not the normal Sunday fare in Austria I’m sure. A Cardinal is saying it so – he must know what he is about. If you ask me he has come to see what his youthful flock are up to? His face does show some strain at times in the mass - study the video closely. I’m not sure he is that impressed frankly. But as a one off youthful bonding mass – let it go. They are young ...........TRUST that the cardinal is keeping a beady eye in them. Don’t forget the parable of the good shepherd who goes to look for his lost sheep – and does whatever it takes to find them and bring them home. The Cardinal is being a good shepherd, but don’t be fooled by his signing of the balloon and seeming compliance– study his face at times- he will look after his church – don’t worry.
By the way - a non nice remark /utterly intolerant of me - The guitar is truly awful I have to say it – dreadful noise when the host was raised......Awful flashing lights .Awful music. But remember that God loves the young people present and values what their intent was. He can see into their hearts and I’m sure they intended no deliberate hurt or insult to the faith - will have to go to confession now about the music remarks.......
See this link for the pope saying mass in Scotland. It is said in the vernacular but the Eucharistic prayer is in Latin. My priest tells me that this is how Vatican 2 intended mass to be said. A nice compromise between Latin and the local language. Note it it not a return to the old Latin Tridentine mass.Also the Latin hymns are used (but this has always been the way where I come from. I dont know what has happended in the USA). They were never phased out over here (UK). It may be that people just need to learn a bit of Latin to be able to sing them but they are wonderful works of art often played on the BBC classical music channel by non religious people so why not have them sung by Catholics.....If you hear them all your life you know them automatically......Watch this and fight/fret /worry no more about the mass or indeed the state of the church (schism what schism?!)
http://www.thepapalvisit.org.uk/Replay-the-Visit/Watch-Again/Mass-from-Bellahouston-Park
Ach, not another schismatic... into the ninth bolgia with him!
Speaking of schisms, will it ever be possible for East and West to reconcile again? It's been nine and a half centuries since 1054...we are so focused with ecumenism regarding those who broke away in the Reformation, but the East-West Schism remains largely overlooked.
AD IESV PER MARIAM,
Filipino Catholic.
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