"An Adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelties." Pope Benedict XVI
Monday, February 6, 2012
Catholics For Obama
THE CATHOLIC KNIGHT: A picture is worth a thousand words....
NOW PLEASE SPREAD IT AROUND.
43
comments; post here:
Anonymous
said...
The main reason why over half of Catholics are democrats is because during the last 50 years the Jesus of the modern New Testament translations has been portrayed as having much concern for the poor and some disdain for the rich. As Vatican II attempted to recover the original meaning of gospel interpretation, the idea of social justice got inextricably mixed with Catholic teaching, so much so that it became more important than other issues such as abortion or loyalty to the Pope.
Now, I'm not a theologian but my generation (Y) doesn't even know what the interpretation of the New Testament teachings were before the 60's. Was Jesus concerned with the poor more than other classes? did he feel that the rich would have a harder time being saved? I would like to hear what the original pre-1960's interpretation was.
Anonymous, I have a copy of a family catechism printed in 1955, I use this to catechise my children, and I regularly read the Douay-Rheims translation of the Bible. So I think I have a pretty well-rounded view of the pre-conciliar teaching of the Church, at least as it was presented in the United States.
What I can say is you might be shocked to discover how much of the Church teaching many attribute to post-conciliar times was actually present in pre-conciliar catechisms. The truth is Vatican II changed nothing insofar as Church teaching. The Church teaches the same things about social justice today, as it taught before the council. So overall doctrine remains the same. What did change however was EMPHASIS. Prior to the council, the Church put a very heavy emphasis on SUBSIDIARITY and PROPERTY RIGHTS in addition to the rights of labourers (unions) and option for the poor (charity). After the council, the emphasis on Subsidiarity and Property Rights seemed to disappear. The Church teaching was still there, but it seemed to fade into the background, almost as an afterthought. That's when the problems began.
Subsidiarity is the 'hinge' upon which all of Catholic social justice turns. Without subsidiarity you cannot have justice -- only tyranny.
The odd thing about that is the word 'subsidiarity' seems to appear more in post-conciliar documents dealing with social justice, almost as if Holy Mother Church is crying out to the faithful to remember this important principle. Sadly, this is lost on deaf ears among many of the clergy and faithful who promote social justice.
The end result is a rush to implement the Church's social teaching using the biggest and most intrusive government possible, all the while ignoring the very Church teaching (Subsidiarity) that discourages this rushing to big government in the first place. Politicians like Obama, and the Democrats in general, have appealed to Catholic Americans for decades for this reason. They promise all the ends of Catholic social justice while ignoring the means of Catholic social justice. They promise Solidarity without Subsidiarity, and therein lies the danger.
Now we have an entire generation of Catholic Americans who vote Democrat like mind-numbed robots, forgetting that the ends never justify the means.
My comment here should not be mistaken for a blanket endorsement of the Catholic vote going to Republicans. For I have seen that the Republicans can make just as good mind-numbed robots as Democrats. As Catholics we must abandon the two-party system here in the States, and look to the Church alone for guidance on the issues of the day.
Clause 2424 of the 1995 Catechism of the Catholic Church and its surrounding clauses provide an excellent summary of Catholic Social Teaching (in terms of socio-ecconomics) The brilliant 'Laborem Exercens by Bl. John Paul II is a work of genius in my thinking, building upon (not overshadowing) pre-consilliar teachings on socio-ecconomics maticulously referenced with appropriate scriptural sources. As a student of theology, I have come up close to the constitutions of VII (also works of inspiration in my view) that bare very little resemblence to the shocking post concilliar abuses perpetrated in their name. It was study of these constitutions (all faithfully Bible referenced for enquiring evangelical readers that found the first chinks in my protestant armour, combined with the ministry of this blog and another very similar to it.
I trust and pray that, along with TCKs suggestions, these will assist you in your faith walk. Also you can't go wrong reading anything by G. K. Chesterton on the matter.
I agree with all of that. Unfortunately, Catholics who had voted Democrat in the 50's-60's morphed from being Catholic democrats to being Democat-Catholics. Catholic Social Justice has been hijacked by the Progressives and Communists and twisted it around to what it means today, i.e. they took the religion out of it. Sort of reminds me of an article I read recently where this guy says he loves Jesus he just doesn't do religion. Kinda like chocolate without the cocoa bean, if you ask me. Any time you inject government into anything that is good, it will turn bad. Airport security, public (government)housing, (government) public schools...I can go on. I read on Fr. Z's website a letter from Big Catholic Obama Fan Doug Kmeic to Tyrant Obama pleading with him to reconsider his position on the HHS decision. Reminded me of a battered wife asking her abusive husband to forgive her....pathetic.
Thank you for that clarification. You seem to be saying that the concern for the poor is consistent but the means of helping them, local vs big government/family and church vs the state, is the difference between Catholic and secular progressive methods.
My first time in. There is no record of any Republican or republican adminisitration that looked after the needs of Catholics. Catholics vote democrat because we are by and large ethnics in the country. We were not allowed to be part of the mainstream. Only now, with the predominance of our religion in the US are we now being courted by Republicans. It is folly to think that they will look after our needs.
Lastly, I understand you want to look to the church for guidance on the issues of the day. However, this is the same church and the same leaders of this church who have sat by while countless hundreds of Priests were allowed to remain in the Priesthood while being convicted or charged with Molestation of Children.
That's not true anonymous. The number of clergy involved in sex abuse and cover up was less than 5%. That's a fact. While any number above 0% is too high, it must be acknowledged that sexual abuse and cover up is just over 5% in America's Protestant churches (according to records from insurance companies), and it's over 10% in the general population, and over 15% in America's public schools. I'm not excusing the Catholic Church's sex scandal in any way. All I'm saying is when you know the FACTS, you'll discover that the Catholic Church has been a victim of media hype and in actuality has more credibility on moral issues than any other American institution. That's just the facts.
The reasons Catholics vote democratic are largely historical/cultural and not idealogical. Two books I can recommend in this regard are "Protestant, Catholic, Jew" by Herberg and "Beyond the Melting Pot" by Moynihan.
Mr Knight, thank you for keeping Catholic Social Teaching at the forefront of this blog. Like yourself I am very interested in prophecy, but much of what drives my love for the Church is her commitment to the diginity of the human person as expressed in her Social Teaching.
I have an acquaintance, orthodox in theology and very right-wing in politics, who is fond of reminding people that Vatican II was hijacked by the radical liberal apostates. Indeed she is correct. I maintain, however, that Catholic Social Teaching has been suppressed and twisted by many "ultra-orthodox" in an attempt to serve their very selfish and individualistic agenda, which finds expression in excessive love for the Republican Party. If I mention "Catholic Social Teaching" to this lady she starts to tell me how dangerous and heretical Liberation Theology is - as though Catholic Social Teaching and Liberation Theology are one in the same!
I am presently reading "Against the Protestant Gnostics" by Philip Lee, and am coming to the view that gnosticism finds its deepest expression in Catholicism today not through the Ennegram, but through people like my acquaintance, who are deeply anti-gnostic in their theology in that they wholly affirm creation as good, yet simultaneously embrace a radical individualism that places self at the center with only a perfunctory nod to "community." This can only be accomplished when one marginalizes Catholic Social Teaching.
Thanks for letting me rant about this again. I am a hedgehod not a fox, so I will ask your patience as I return again to this topic about lack of charity in the theologically orthodox, which I believe is a rot from within the Church.
Re "lack of charity in the theologically orthodox".
I am confused by what you have said. It is my understanding that the "theologically orthodox" do not veer left or right in their interpretations but keep in line with tradition, as an "orthodox Roman Catholic" follows the pope and the teachings of the Church straight down the middle; surely this position is not likely to bring forth less charity but more.
If they'd all simply take a deep breath, have a cup of tea and sit down - picking up a copy of LE and the CCC in the process - actually beginning to read (along with the VII constitutions themselves (nothing to do with the so called 'spirit of VII') everything would become clearer, much clearer; we as a people of faith could meet in reason and continue on the path together focused upon Christ Jesus, His Word, the magisterium and an unbroken golden thread of continuity that has spanned 2,000 years. Let us all dedicate ourselves to prayer; there are interesting times ahead, and you know what the Chinese say about living in interesting times... The framework for authentic Catholic Social Teaching runs throughout scripture, OT and NT alike...I've shared the 'trinity verses' of Catholic social teaching before, but at the risk of becoming dreary, I'll do it again;
Matt 25: 34-40 (be sure to read Matt 23:23 also - very interesting words upon not only attending to the needs of the poor, but in attending to what so many cast off as minor, redundant or incidental things' also) Acts 2: 42-47 James 5: 1-6
I think I have just caught on to what you meant by "theologically orthodox". We have a saying here that Catholics on the far right are "more Catholic than the pope" and yes, this does bring about a lack of charity. I'll use my homeschooling experience to hopefully clarify what I mean.
I homeschooled my younger children and thought that the local Catholic homeschooling community would be close and supportive of each other but was unpleasantly surprised to find otherwise. I only managed to form friendships with some homeschooling mothers; the others considered themselves "holier than thou" (more Catholic than the pope) and looked down their noses at the rest of us. Even though we were doing our best to follow the pope and be faithful to the teachings of the Church, we just weren't good enough Catholics in their eyes, and they considered those Catholic parents who were not homeschooling even lower still on the spiritual ladder, which was quite unfair.
By seeing themselves as better, the theologically haughty homeschoolers had made themselves narrower Catholics and certainly less charitable, yet paradoxically they saw themselves as theologically orthodox. This left my homeschooling and non-homeschooling friends and I in a sort of "theological no-man's land" since we considered ourselves theologically orthodox.
I hadn't thought this out before. Thank you for stimulating my grey matter.
I am confused by what you have said. It is my understanding that the "theologically orthodox" do not veer left or right in their interpretations but keep in line with tradition, as an "orthodox Roman Catholic" follows the pope and the teachings of the Church straight down the middle; surely this position is not likely to bring forth less charity but more.
Ann,
Yes, one would expect orthodoxy would bring with it Charity. I am definitely not talking about the "more Catholic than the Pope" people (which can easily slide into cult-like thinking and heresey - Intercessors of the Lamb, etc) but those 100% loyal to the Pope, who are themselves wary of any group that even edges toward sedevacantism but who, in their personal lives, are uncharitable in practice toward other people including other Christians.
The example I have given before on this blog pertains to my experience as a widow. I used to be part of a small circle of ultra-orthodox Catholic friends (Daily communicants, experts in church history and doctrine, "heresy hunters," etc). After my husband's death they gave me no support except to "pray for me." They never once asked how I am coping, what my life is like, or even what his name or profession was(I met them about two weeks after his death). It is as though his existence has been wiped from history. I have faced near total social isolation and near financial ruin since my husband's death (long story) I have also been in and out of hospital with neurological problems. I mentioned it in passing to them once or twice. None has ever done anything to help, not even a phone call in hospital or a direct question about the status of what I am facing. Many are very happy people with strong family support ane material affluence.
The only thing that has gotten me through all these things is one very close friend (a lapsed Catholic who still believes who is the most charitable person I know) and the Grace of God, which has sent me protection and help in other unexpected ways, mainly from strangers.
I have written previously at this blog that I am on the verge of leaving the Church and sometimes even question whether this has taken away my Faith. I couldn't even "ask" any of the very affluent daily communicants I describe above for twenty dollars, and I guarantee you they would never offer it. But they would, of course, "pray for" me incessantly. And they are, of course, "happy and joyous" in their own lives and cannot understand why anyone else would worry or complain about anything.
The proper question here is not "why am I so bitter and judgmental" but rather why people who claim devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and to Holy Mother Church will lift not a finger to help someone in need, why they are so utterly indifferent to their brothers and sisters in Christ. It is a mystery with which I continue to grapple, but I believe its roots lie in pride (excessive self-love), which precedes lack of charity. Intellectual knowledge of Church history and doctrine, including knowledge about the works of mercy, is not a substitute for charitable actions. St. Paul tells us that if we speak with tongues of men and angels but have not caritas we are nothing.
I pray to God for others - for the end of suffering in the world, for conversion, for specific help to those who are struggling like Mr Knight's ill and financially hurting father. I do what I can to reach out to people in need whenever I can but am limited myself in resources which I could use to help. I am hanging on to my white-collar job but it is under constant threat from "outsourcing" to third world countries. I am 45 years old and don't know where I will find work in this event for the situation for most technical workers is terrible for those 40+.
I know that my sentiments about this topic cause grave discomfirt to most Christians. Please forgive me if I have had this effect on you.
You certainly have not made me feel uncomfortable and I am sorry that you are suffering so. I do understand what you mean and will tell you a little about myself so you know that I am not just saying that.
I'm older than you and "a widow of sorts". My husband divorced me many years ago under the "no blame" law here in Australia which only requires 12 months separation as grounds for divorce. He wanted to marry again and in fact has "married" at least twice since.
My youngest son is not long out of his teens. He was still small when I applied for an annulment in case God intended a second marriage for me so that my sons would have a father. The annulment was granted but I was too busy working and taking care of the children to meet anyone and so I have raised the boys alone anyway.
We never received any support from my husband and I cut our budget to the bone and bought an old house in need of repair to keep our costs down (the roof still leaks and that's not half of it) so I could work hours around the boys education as one had a disability (which happily we have pretty much overcome) and needed homeschooling. I became more worn out as the years went by. In the end my health broke down totally and I had to stop work permanently (heart, lungs, kidneys, joints all in trouble). I now suffer severe pain and breathlessness which limit mobility and am on supplemental oxygen part of the time.
I, like you, have felt the lack of charity from fellow parishioners - especially married couples who were considered pillars of the Church. I didn't seem to fit, perhaps because I was only half a couple and everyone else was whole and I made them feel uncomfortable.
But there really are good practicing Catholics out there who I believe you will meet in time as I have. You are still relatively young and I think young women without a husband are the most ignored by other couples. That was my experience when I was younger anyway.
I have met a few lovely, humble Catholics along the way who I treasure because they are true friends. One, younger than myself, is now a widow and has commented as you have of the lack of any real warmth or concern from fellow parishioners who used to welcome her and her husband into their circle before his death. She is now at work and trying to balance home and children and all her worries alone.
Our Lord must have felt very deserted too during his passion and dying hours on the Cross. I read somewhere that as He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane the night before He died, He would have seen all the souls for millennia to come that he would save by going through with his ordeal to the painful end, and also those who would desert Him.
I know you hurt but I don't think you will leave the Church because you would be deserting Him in the Blessed Sacrament who loves you so much and it seems to me that you love Him too.
I hope I haven't overstepped my place and offended you.
"It is a mystery with which I continue to grapple, but I believe its roots lie in pride (excessive self-love), which precedes lack of charity. "
Sadly, to me, it is not much of a mystery at all. the roots of this strain of self-focus and almost sociopathic indifference to the suffering of others, especially that of those who are close to them (and it IS indifference, is a shameful disgrace - as 'we'll pray for you' is in my experience code for 'we won't lift a finger to support you emotionally, physically or even take a genuine interest as that causes us to swerve from our duty to/vigilence/gatekeeping of Holy Mother Church, etc, etc.'. In my old Seventh Day Adventist circles, we had a name for these types, 'concerned Brethren' with whom I became entangled. and they did not one single thing to aid my poor mother in the last months of her time in the home with we kids (I couldn't do much due to my significant (Braille Reading; at that time, white cane using - now guide dog using - grew up fast after her death - a salient lesson for any parents of vision impaired children who read this blog) before her final illness forced her into permanent hospitalization nine months prior to her death. It was the Anglicans that came around, provided meals, whose pastors ensured she received the sacraments regularly in our home, who mobilized into action with far more love and charity than I have ever seen from a Seventh Day Adventist of the 'Concerned Brethren' variety! You see, tragically, these types are consumed with ensuring rigid 'hyper orthodoxy' in their own lives and vociferously calling attention to each defect of Holy Mother Church and those a few steps to the left of themselves, or considered by them, a few steps to the left. Seen it, lived it, know how distructive it is and am enraged by such indifference!
Matt 25: 34-40
acts 2: 42-47 James Ch2 in its entirety followed by ch5: 1-6 TILL I'M FLAMIN' BLUE IN THE FACE!! Don't care how irritated other readers become at me banging on about these crucial Gospel and NT injunctions because PEOPLE, THOSE THAT SHOULD AND KNOW BETTER ARE NOT - TO THEIR SHAME!! what did Christ Jesus say?? 'You brude of vipers!! You fixate over the minutiae of the law while crushing widows into the dust with your heavy burdens'!! Now Matt 23: 23 shows us quite clearly that though these matters are important, they are useless if not practiced with real, practical, authentic, transforming charity!!! Luciana, I wish it were that I was not half way around the world from you; to come alongside if you would permit it, and walk the road with you, being there, to listen, to come to church with you, to be company and help when you wish it, to simply allow you to 'be' would be an honour. those that are grinding you down with their callous indifference obviously have not remembered Christ's word that the 'bruised reed' must not be crushed' nor the 'fading flame' snuffed out; woe to those that do so, either by sins of comission or sins of omition!!
In the end, anything I say is so much mist and flower of the field, because I cannot DO as I strain to do for you...unless you happen to be in Sydney, then, let us meet if you wish.
May our heavenly Father hold you in the hollow of His hand, dear sister,
Blessings,
Sarah, Australia. PS: www.satogo.com www.freedomscientific.com www.humanware.com for computer and tech for folk with little or no sight www.torchtrust.org www.braillebibles.org http://www.xaviersocietyfortheblind.org/index.php/site/services/ for christian and Catholic materianl in Braille, audio and giant print
I posted to Luciana before reading your response. if you're in Sydney, or passing through, it would be an honour to introduce myself in person.
Re the observations made by yourself and Luciana concerning the uncharitable attitude of married couples to widowed or otherwise single women from their 30's upwards, I believe the root cause of this to be very pernicious; that of an almost subconscious (at best) feeling of threat even though such is clearly not the case. This has been noted by commentators in Anglican circles on www.sydneyanglicans.org in their articles on better care of widdows/divorcees. it is a distructive, uncharitable and unchristian disgrace! the Church is called to care for the widow and orphan; to come alongside in support - physical, emotional, psychological...that widows and other older singles are excluded like this, even harsher if they have children, is woeful! if any reader who is a member of a couple is guilty of this, pray for forgiveness and repent! I did not marry until 35, and as an older (not married in my early-mid 20's) single, felt the exclusion for the mostpart, especially in Sydney and the Central Coast!! Couple this with a disability, and one is reduced to the status of lepper! it takes faith of steel to withstand this; our own little 'chastizement' and this in the body of Christ!!
I just typed you long responses but they disappeared - there seems to be a problem with my blogger. I will try to get back to you later today or tomorrow. Thank you so much for your very wonderful replies which have given me much to think about, and to be grateful for. You Aussies are a force to be reckoned with that's for sure (LOL).
I, like you, have felt the lack of charity from fellow parishioners - especially married couples who were considered pillars of the Church. I didn't seem to fit, perhaps because I was only half a couple and everyone else was whole and I made them feel uncomfortable.
Our Lord must have felt very deserted too during his passion and dying hours on the Cross. I read somewhere that as He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane the night before He died, He would have seen all the souls for millennia to come that he would save by going through with his ordeal to the painful end, and also those who would desert Him.
Ann,
What you have written above, your own story and what I have quoted above, has made me cry for it speaks directly to my heart. Thank you so much for taking the time to share this heartbreaking story. I can see that you understand my situation, for you have been there, and worse. In many ways what you endured from your husband is worse than a death, for it is what Hawthorne called the "violation of the sanctity of the human heart."
I would appreciate knowing more from you about how you kept your faith in the midst of the lack of support from parishoners. What kept you going? Did you ever doubt, did you have ups and downs? Were there signs that brought you through so that you knew you still belonged? Did you participate actively in parish life while your sons were growing up or was mass enough? Do you have close friendships now, or is your support mainly from family (including your sons)?
Anything you could share in this way would be helpful to me. It is clear from your posts you are a very strong, articulate, and thoughtful person. It is with this in mind that I ask if you could post about this matter here, it might of help to not only me, but also readers who do not post but are perhaps struggling with similar things.
I have participated in many blogs over recent years, mostly as lurker but sometimes as poster, in part because I am looking for information but also because I am seeking community and most especially insights into the struggles I have written about above. I have found nowhere on the web that gives me even a hint of either (have tried several Catholic sites/blogs, some of which led for a time to offline "friendships" that turned out false). I find myself here at this relatively quiet but very special place with very special people, and I hope this is somewhere I can rest for a while.
Before closing down the internet for the night I reread your post to me start to finish and saw the mention of your small group of friends - in my response to you, I did not take that into account when I asked about friendships. What friendships mean in the context of parish life, and larger Catholic life, is so much at the heart of what I am trying to sort through and have been for the last few years. I hope we will, together with Sarah, be able to discuss these things more here in the future, for it is a discussion I cannot find anywhere else.
To sum it up in a single phrase - I am very, very interested in Personalism (John Paul II - whose writings on Personalism brought me into the Church) but all that is talked about, all the websites and the books and DVD sets, are about Marriage - what I most wonder about now is this--what does the "dignity of the human person" mean in the context of friendship and community? Isn't this, not marriage per se, the subject of Christ's Second Great Commandment? This haunts me.
It has been my experience, spanning three denominational settings, that the issue of firm, 'rain hail and shine' supportive and genuine friendship within the body of Christ between congregational members has NEVER been addressed from the pulpit or as the theme of a Bible study - not in terms of the second portion of Christ's two-fold command of love (oft quoted, disgracefully practiced) nor in terms of Galatians 6: 2. THIS IS THE GLUE OF COMMUNITY - COMMUNITY IN CHRIST - IN HIS BODY - AS BRANCHES OF THE TRUE VINE!! I have never heard a sermon on this, exhorting parishioners to support one another in a very real sense - physically, emotionally, and spiritually, thus fulfilling what we all are to do; the 'one another's' if one will. Much talk in terms of evangilising and sharing the gospel in SDA/Evangelical circles, but nothing on friendship and fraternal relationships as the glue of community; the vital twin of the family.
I have seen it in action in only one Anglican parish and in this, within only one very small group of men and women as an adult - the organic care members of my old Bible study group showed each other (they had settled in this part of Sydney post-war, had founded the little church, had their children together and grown up together. Except for one couple who were taken into this very special fold when they arrived in Aus from Europe in the early 70's, they were all in their 80's and three of their number have passed away over the past six years. they've been part of the same Bible study group for nearly 40 years and have also stood by their neighbours in natural organic community. this was largely disguarded by the boomer generation and has collapsed completely in this and the younger generations (reasons for this ranging from double income families to folk needing to slave away just to keep a roof over their heads and basic utilities paid - culture of materialism/individualism/secularism designed to fracture community, isolate and compartmentalise, thus making individuals easier to govern/control by the state).
From what I understand, the bond of friendship was considered virtually on parr with the state of marriage in medieval times, with formal Church ceremonies of oath and pledge that bonded brothers, and sisters, in the fidelity of friendship. perhaps the most outstanding example of this can be found in the OT account of David and Jonathan - tragic - Can't read it without tearing up. We've also lost the third form of human communion to a great extent within the Catholic Church; that of the vocational life of men and women religious (though this is beginning to rise again - contemplative orders are exploding though there is still a glaring need for traditional habbited active orders). Not a few of these openly take older women, women with disabilities, and some have no upper age limit; same goes for the male orders of religious brothers. Priests and bishops who may read this blog, remember the lonely and isolated who suffer grievously in the ranks of the Church and stand for it no longer!! There is so much work that needs to be done!
You said: "In many ways what you endured from your husband is worse than a death, for it is what Hawthorne called the "violation of the sanctity of the human heart." Thank you so much. You are the only person in all these years that has understood the impact.
I will certainly answer your questions and will be glad if anything I have to say is of help. I wouldn't get far today though. It is Friday night here and my mind is not robust enough at the moment; therefore I'll write again on the weekend.
I find what you have said about Personalism interesting and look forward to exploring this with you and Sarah.
The exact quote I was thinking of from Hawthorne (which I was quoting from memory from 20+ years ago when I first studied "The Scarlet Letter" and what my wonderful professor described as "what Hawthorne believed was the Unpardonable Sin") is as follows, and refers to the character Roger Chillingworth, who sinned by 'violating, in cold blood, the sanctity of the human heart.'
You will understand why I googled it this morning in order to provide the exact quote.
I have received some upsetting news this morning and am unable to reply to your compelling observations. I will try to back to it later this weekend once I regain some balance, so please keep this old thread bookmaried for the moment.
Thank you for giving the exact quote. I hope you are OK (I saw what you wrote to Sarah about upsetting news). I finally have my answers ready to your questions (Part 1 below) but please don't feel obliged to read or respond until you are feeling up to it. However, if you want to unload your troubles please write. Sometimes sharing makes the load lighter. I'll check this spot everyday. Until we hear from you again, God bless and keep you safe.
Answers to your questions, Part 1
You said "would appreciate knowing more from you about how you kept your faith in the midst of the lack of support from parishioners". Well, I can tell you of experiences that definitely made a difference. The first was a fair bit of isolation when a child and not much in the way of material possessions, and the second was the faith of my parents and watching my father die when I was a young woman.
I lost both my sisters and was raised from about age 7 as an only child. My father turned to drink and my mother to pain killers. When at home, where I often was because I missed a fair bit of school, I spent many waking hours alone even though Mum was in the house (She slept a lot; I think she was suffering depression). Anyway, the pope says silence is good and I had a lot of it. I mostly lived in my head - thought a lot (even today my youngest daughter tells me I think too much) - until Dad came home of a night. He brought the "sunshine": conversation, laughter and warmth, even though it was often late and he was under the influence of alcohol.
Although he drank to excess, Dad was almost always employed (he drank before and after work and in his lunch hour), was a very social and caring man who would go out on a limb to help anyone in trouble, a loving father although not a good provider, and never violent. His faith and morals were strong and he hated himself for not being able to stop drinking. Mum said Dad didn't have a drinking problem, and he never sought help. He thought he should be able to kick his alcohol addiction alone but never could. For all that, he and Mum taught me my religion and exhibited much faith. We walked 2 or 3 miles to Mass on Sunday and Mum and Dad made certain I made my 9 First Fridays.
Not unexpectedly, Dad died relatively young from cancer related to his drinking. I was a young woman at the time (early 30s and married with children). His pain was severe during his dying months but when he prayed his Rosary each night the pain eased and he could sleep. He received the Last Rites and was in his dying agony when he began praying his nightly Rosary in a bare whisper. About half-way through the third decade the pain subsided, his face relaxed and he looked younger than he had for some time. He also began looking a little above the end of his bed at something we couldn't see. His gaze was steady and he continued his Rosary through to the end looking at this invisible person or persons who I believe were Our Lord and Our Lady. He was totally at peace from this time on. When he finished the Rosary with the Hail Holy Queen he kissed the crucifix as he always did each night and that was his last act. That was the moment he left this life and entered the next.
Summary: (1) I think that isolation in childhood made rejection by fellow parishioners in adulthood less shocking although no less hurtful; (2) Want was something I was used to and the want of support was just another want; and (3) Seeing my father die a holy death - Our Lord and Our Lady taking him home - cemented my faith.
Part 2 following (I thought the whole lot might not go through in one post as there may be a word limit)
You asked: "What kept you going?" Looking at the Crucifix and imagining what it must have been like for Our Lord hanging there. My sufferings were clearly nothing in comparison.
When family visited and could supervise the children for an hour or so, I was able to go to church and spend time with Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. Looking at the huge Crucifix that hung above the tabernacle there, tears would come and perspective return.
You said: "Did you ever doubt, did you have ups and downs?" Oh yes! But somewhere under my doubt, I knew better.
One day when doubt had crept in and made a nuisance of itself for a few weeks, God blessed me with a visit from the Jehovah Witnesses. They made arrangements to come back each week and each week I researched and prepared replies in readiness for their forthcoming visit to show them where they were wrong. In the end, with each side unsuccessful in converting the other, they and I called it quits. But then I realized I hadn't lost at all ... my faith had been challenged and reinforced.
You asked: "Were there signs that brought you through so that you knew you still belonged?" Yes, when "brothers and sisters in Christ" ceased being an abstract concept and became a concrete experience during a retreat.
I was very, very down when the opportunity presented to go on retreat for a weekend well away from my parish. My mother, who lived some distance away, had agreed to mind the children and so I set off on my long car trip, first to my mother's with the children and then more driving to a part of the state I had never been. I got lost on the way and arrived at the retreat centre well after dark but was taken in without any bother.
It was my first retreat since secondary school. I had been wary before this because retreats in my diocese often involved enneagrams, eastern mysticism and all that but this retreat was not one of those. On my retreat Our Lord was at the centre of every day: Mass, Adoration and Benediction, as well as prayers in the chapel before the Blessed Sacrament periodically through the day and into the evening, with Confession available when the priest wasn't on the altar. It was wonderful; an oasis in a spiritual desert.
I experience a definite pull when kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament, the longer I am there the stronger the pull and I don't want to leave. Some were staying on after the weekend and others coming. There was an opportunity to extend to the end of the week and I grabbed it after phoning Mum to ascertain if the children could stay the extra time. I don't remember how I managed the cost financially as I had no savings but I did somehow. This retreat was an answer to prayerful longing.
Unexpectedly, part way through that retreat week all the major hurts in my life (the loss of my husband, coldness of fellow parishioners etc) surfaced rather publicly and I was embarrassed as the tears came. Then an older woman wrapped her arms around me saying it was perfectly alright; that we can't feel God's embrace and so we need human arms to hold us on His behalf. How right she was!
The retreat community had come from different diocese, cultural backgrounds and walks of life yet in that community I wasn't odd. Our hearts were similarly attuned - I think because of the time spent with Our Lord (literally hours every day). It was as if our persons joined to Him at Baptism were receiving a fresh transfusion of His Love penetrating us from the Monstrance or Tabernacle, reinvigorating our relationship with Him and animating our fragile, ordinary human love with His. I feel this had to be the case because the respect, the kindness and joy I encountered there I have never encountered to that degree anywhere else. This is how our parishes are meant to be. Our Lord is in the tabernacle in every one, but he is ignored more often than not, and I think this is the crux of the problem.
Liberals used to sprout about the coming of universal brotherhood, believing it could be achieved by purely human means. It can't, since the Eucharist Heart of Jesus is the source. If only every parish would begin perpetual adoration - it would only mean signing up for an hour's adoration once a month more or less depending on the size of the parish - then they would be transformed. [I'll get off my soap box now.]
You asked: "Did you participate actively in parish life while your sons were growing up or was mass enough?" From time to time I participated in parish life; for example, I helped raise funds for the new church. I was a catechist at one stage, fully supported in my efforts by the assistant priest but then parish politics kicked in and I received flack from the parish priest after the other catechists made trouble for me with him (The other catechists were all living with their spouses, had financial security and lovely homes and you would think this would be enough to make them content, but no, I had better qualifications and was getting more done and this irked them terribly). Their animosity made my catechetical work - preparing public school children for First Holy Communion and leading a family catechetical programme that I had introduced in the parish - uncomfortable and increased the difficulties of the assistant priest; so I saw out the year and quit so as not to be a source of division.
To my shame, there were even periods - not while I was a catechist but when cut off from parish life - when I became so disheartened I even stopped going to Mass until I pulled myself together again. And this was shameful because the Mass is our opportunity to not run away but stand with Our Lord under the Cross and receive the graces He suffered and died to give us. Moreover, I was responsible for getting my younger children to Mass.
No words - simply, no words! Your account has moved me profoundly this Sunday morning. All words seem utterly suppurphluous and redundant...you are a blessing, sweet sister!! Thank god for your witness and ministry, for that is what your acount is - a testament to God and for us all.
Luciana,
Dear sister in Christ, May our heavenly Father hold you in the hollow of His hand and bear you in His bosom through the sorrows that assail you presently; please let us know how you are doing when able. if you need silence, we shall be honoured to give it to you. If you need to be in company, we shall be honoured likewise to give it.
I have read through your posts on this thread, literally riveted to my computer as your extraordinary testimony unfolded. I am unable to respond more specifically now but hope to be able to do so in the future. I am grateful that you have shared this with us. I hope in the near future we will able to discuss many of the points you bring up.
Sarah, dear Sister in Christ,
I feel the same gratitude to you for all you have contributed on this thread and elsewhere at this blog, and hope to continue this discussion soon.
I went to mass today at a different parish, as I am currently seeking a parish where I feel more at home. While participating in the liturgy I found myself vexed by many things -the altar girls in jeans and trainers, long-haired altar boy who looked like he was on his way to a heavy metal concert, the uninspiring sermon, the lack of reverence in general, the horrid music, the orchestration of clapping when the children perform readings, etc. These are incidentals, but I still feel a need to find a more reverent liturgy. In such circumstance I always do focus on the key point Ann highlights so eloquently above: This is the Church; Jesus is present.
Thank you also Sarah for your words of encouragement and support for my current difficulty, and also for joining the Novena we started today. I am hoping others will join the novena as we progress in hope with this very important petition.
Looking forward to speaking more in the near future about all these matters.
Dear Sarah, your enthusiastic and loving heart is very special. Thank you for being you: for not letting you sufferings in life sour you but refine your beautiful soul making it joyful and a treasure of love for others.
Luciana, I will write later but am low on energy at the moment (not processing oxygen well and therefore can't maintain sustained concentration for too long). Don't worry it's quite normal given my medical condition and happens often but then it passes. I am looking forward to talking with you and Sarah again soon and exploring our faith as we walk together. I am grateful for the insights and encouragement you and Sarah give me.
Dear Sarah, your enthusiastic and loving heart is very special. Thank you for being you: for not letting you sufferings in life sour you but refine your beautiful soul making it joyful and a treasure of love for others.
I concur with all you have written here Ann - she is a very special lady.
That above post was from me (Luciana), I forgot to sign.
To Ann and Sarah, my Sisters in Christ. I am going to suggest moving this discussion onto a different forum in order to save poor Mr Knight the drudge of having to resurrect an old thread. At the moment I don't have the time to set it up but I suggest I should set up a private blog (when done I will send you both the password - I believe I now have your email addreses from my novena blog) where we can discuss these issues in more depth. I thought of an email list but I like the blog idea better because all the information will be kept in one place (avoiding "digital sprawl"), and it is something that in the future we might wish to make available to other readers.
Let me know here what you think of this idea, whether good or bad. Perhaps an experiment but one that costs little or nothing to set up.
From time to time (although not often) I run across random blog comments on the issues we have touched on above, and often wish to reach out to the writers of the comments.
More details to follow and I will update this thread once again when I have them. Thanking our gallant warrior and comrade-in-arms Mr Knight for his infinite patience here.
Ann, dear sister, I hope your current bout of health struggles ease up very soon.
I would like your permission to send you via email the information on the blog I have set up as discussed above. I have your email addresses from the posts you entered on my Novena blog.
If you would reply to me positively either on this thread or on my Novena blog I would be most grateful (in the latter case, I will not approve the comment so it will not show publicly on the blog).
Yes Luciana, please do send the blog information to my email address. Thank you so much for going to all this effort. You are a very dear lady and I am very grateful that we have met.
It would be an honour to participate in this blog; please excuse my late response as have been away out of internet/mobile phone range since this Tuesday last.
May you be richly and wonderfully blessed,
Sarah. PS: Please give God the glory; I'm naught but for Him and any good in me is not myself but our Creator (as I am wont to obnoxious and impatient personality of my own accord).
43 comments; post here:
The main reason why over half of Catholics are democrats is because during the last 50 years the Jesus of the modern New Testament translations has been portrayed as having much concern for the poor and some disdain for the rich. As Vatican II attempted to recover the original meaning of gospel interpretation, the idea of social justice got inextricably mixed with Catholic teaching, so much so that it became more important than other issues such as abortion or loyalty to the Pope.
Now, I'm not a theologian but my generation (Y) doesn't even know what the interpretation of the New Testament teachings were before the 60's. Was Jesus concerned with the poor more than other classes? did he feel that the rich would have a harder time being saved? I would like to hear what the original pre-1960's interpretation was.
Anonymous, I have a copy of a family catechism printed in 1955, I use this to catechise my children, and I regularly read the Douay-Rheims translation of the Bible. So I think I have a pretty well-rounded view of the pre-conciliar teaching of the Church, at least as it was presented in the United States.
What I can say is you might be shocked to discover how much of the Church teaching many attribute to post-conciliar times was actually present in pre-conciliar catechisms. The truth is Vatican II changed nothing insofar as Church teaching. The Church teaches the same things about social justice today, as it taught before the council. So overall doctrine remains the same. What did change however was EMPHASIS. Prior to the council, the Church put a very heavy emphasis on SUBSIDIARITY and PROPERTY RIGHTS in addition to the rights of labourers (unions) and option for the poor (charity). After the council, the emphasis on Subsidiarity and Property Rights seemed to disappear. The Church teaching was still there, but it seemed to fade into the background, almost as an afterthought. That's when the problems began.
Subsidiarity is the 'hinge' upon which all of Catholic social justice turns. Without subsidiarity you cannot have justice -- only tyranny.
The odd thing about that is the word 'subsidiarity' seems to appear more in post-conciliar documents dealing with social justice, almost as if Holy Mother Church is crying out to the faithful to remember this important principle. Sadly, this is lost on deaf ears among many of the clergy and faithful who promote social justice.
The end result is a rush to implement the Church's social teaching using the biggest and most intrusive government possible, all the while ignoring the very Church teaching (Subsidiarity) that discourages this rushing to big government in the first place. Politicians like Obama, and the Democrats in general, have appealed to Catholic Americans for decades for this reason. They promise all the ends of Catholic social justice while ignoring the means of Catholic social justice. They promise Solidarity without Subsidiarity, and therein lies the danger.
Now we have an entire generation of Catholic Americans who vote Democrat like mind-numbed robots, forgetting that the ends never justify the means.
My comment here should not be mistaken for a blanket endorsement of the Catholic vote going to Republicans. For I have seen that the Republicans can make just as good mind-numbed robots as Democrats. As Catholics we must abandon the two-party system here in the States, and look to the Church alone for guidance on the issues of the day.
Gen Y Catholic,
Clause 2424 of the 1995 Catechism of the Catholic Church and its surrounding clauses provide an excellent summary of Catholic Social Teaching (in terms of socio-ecconomics) The brilliant 'Laborem Exercens by Bl. John Paul II is a work of genius in my thinking, building upon (not overshadowing) pre-consilliar teachings on socio-ecconomics maticulously referenced with appropriate scriptural sources. As a student of theology, I have come up close to the constitutions of VII (also works of inspiration in my view) that bare very little resemblence to the shocking post concilliar abuses perpetrated in their name. It was study of these constitutions (all faithfully Bible referenced for enquiring evangelical readers that found the first chinks in my protestant armour, combined with the ministry of this blog and another very similar to it.
I trust and pray that, along with TCKs suggestions, these will assist you in your faith walk. Also you can't go wrong reading anything by G. K. Chesterton on the matter.
I agree with all of that. Unfortunately, Catholics who had voted Democrat in the 50's-60's morphed from being Catholic democrats to being Democat-Catholics.
Catholic Social Justice has been hijacked by the Progressives and Communists and twisted it around to what it means today, i.e. they took the religion out of it. Sort of reminds me of an article I read recently where this guy says he loves Jesus he just doesn't do religion. Kinda like chocolate without the cocoa bean, if you ask me. Any time you inject government into anything that is good, it will turn bad. Airport security, public (government)housing, (government) public schools...I can go on.
I read on Fr. Z's website a letter from Big Catholic Obama Fan Doug Kmeic to Tyrant Obama pleading with him to reconsider his position on the HHS decision. Reminded me of a battered wife asking her abusive husband to forgive her....pathetic.
That was me...sorry...clicked too soon!
CP
Thank you for that clarification. You seem to be saying that the concern for the poor is consistent but the means of helping them, local vs big government/family and church vs the state, is the difference between Catholic and secular progressive methods.
My first time in. There is no record of any Republican or republican adminisitration that looked after the needs of Catholics. Catholics vote democrat because we are by and large ethnics in the country. We were not allowed to be part of the mainstream. Only now, with the predominance of our religion in the US are we now being courted by Republicans. It is folly to think that they will look after our needs.
Lastly, I understand you want to look to the church for guidance on the issues of the day. However, this is the same church and the same leaders of this church who have sat by while countless hundreds of Priests were allowed to remain in the Priesthood while being convicted or charged with Molestation of Children.
That's not true anonymous. The number of clergy involved in sex abuse and cover up was less than 5%. That's a fact. While any number above 0% is too high, it must be acknowledged that sexual abuse and cover up is just over 5% in America's Protestant churches (according to records from insurance companies), and it's over 10% in the general population, and over 15% in America's public schools. I'm not excusing the Catholic Church's sex scandal in any way. All I'm saying is when you know the FACTS, you'll discover that the Catholic Church has been a victim of media hype and in actuality has more credibility on moral issues than any other American institution. That's just the facts.
The reasons Catholics vote democratic are largely historical/cultural and not idealogical. Two books I can recommend in this regard are "Protestant, Catholic, Jew" by Herberg and "Beyond the Melting Pot" by Moynihan.
Mr Knight, thank you for keeping Catholic Social Teaching at the forefront of this blog. Like yourself I am very interested in prophecy, but much of what drives my love for the Church is her commitment to the diginity of the human person as expressed in her Social Teaching.
I have an acquaintance, orthodox in theology and very right-wing in politics, who is fond of reminding people that Vatican II was hijacked by the radical liberal apostates. Indeed she is correct. I maintain, however, that Catholic Social Teaching has been suppressed and twisted by many "ultra-orthodox" in an attempt to serve their very selfish and individualistic agenda, which finds expression in excessive love for the Republican Party. If I mention "Catholic Social Teaching" to this lady she starts to tell me how dangerous and heretical Liberation Theology is - as though Catholic Social Teaching and Liberation Theology are one in the same!
I am presently reading "Against the Protestant Gnostics" by Philip Lee, and am coming to the view that gnosticism finds its deepest expression in Catholicism today not through the Ennegram, but through people like my acquaintance, who are deeply anti-gnostic in their theology in that they wholly affirm creation as good, yet simultaneously embrace a radical individualism that places self at the center with only a perfunctory nod to "community." This can only be accomplished when one marginalizes Catholic Social Teaching.
Thanks for letting me rant about this again. I am a hedgehod not a fox, so I will ask your patience as I return again to this topic about lack of charity in the theologically orthodox, which I believe is a rot from within the Church.
Luciana
Luciana,
Re "lack of charity in the theologically orthodox".
I am confused by what you have said. It is my understanding that the "theologically orthodox" do not veer left or right in their interpretations but keep in line with tradition, as an "orthodox Roman Catholic" follows the pope and the teachings of the Church straight down the middle; surely this position is not likely to bring forth less charity but more.
Luciana,
If they'd all simply take a deep breath, have a cup of tea and sit down - picking up a copy of LE and the CCC in the process - actually beginning to read (along with the VII constitutions themselves (nothing to do with the so called 'spirit of VII') everything would become clearer, much clearer; we as a people of faith could meet in reason and continue on the path together focused upon Christ Jesus, His Word, the magisterium and an unbroken golden thread of continuity that has spanned 2,000 years. Let us all dedicate ourselves to prayer; there are interesting times ahead, and you know what the Chinese say about living in interesting times... The framework for authentic Catholic Social Teaching runs throughout scripture, OT and NT alike...I've shared the 'trinity verses' of Catholic social teaching before, but at the risk of becoming dreary, I'll do it again;
Matt 25: 34-40
(be sure to read Matt 23:23 also - very interesting words upon not only attending to the needs of the poor, but in attending to what so many cast off as minor, redundant or incidental things' also)
Acts 2: 42-47
James 5: 1-6
Blessings,
Sarah,
Australia.
Luciana,
I think I have just caught on to what you meant by "theologically orthodox". We have a saying here that Catholics on the far right are "more Catholic than the pope" and yes, this does bring about a lack of charity. I'll use my homeschooling experience to hopefully clarify what I mean.
I homeschooled my younger children and thought that the local Catholic homeschooling community would be close and supportive of each other but was unpleasantly surprised to find otherwise. I only managed to form friendships with some homeschooling mothers; the others considered themselves "holier than thou" (more Catholic than the pope) and looked down their noses at the rest of us. Even though we were doing our best to follow the pope and be faithful to the teachings of the Church, we just weren't good enough Catholics in their eyes, and they considered those Catholic parents who were not homeschooling even lower still on the spiritual ladder, which was quite unfair.
By seeing themselves as better, the theologically haughty homeschoolers had made themselves narrower Catholics and certainly less charitable, yet paradoxically they saw themselves as theologically orthodox. This left my homeschooling and non-homeschooling friends and I in a sort of "theological no-man's land" since we considered ourselves theologically orthodox.
I hadn't thought this out before. Thank you for stimulating my grey matter.
I am confused by what you have said. It is my understanding that the "theologically orthodox" do not veer left or right in their interpretations but keep in line with tradition, as an "orthodox Roman Catholic" follows the pope and the teachings of the Church straight down the middle; surely this position is not likely to bring forth less charity but more.
Ann,
Yes, one would expect orthodoxy would bring with it Charity. I am definitely not talking about the "more Catholic than the Pope" people (which can easily slide into cult-like thinking and heresey - Intercessors of the Lamb, etc) but those 100% loyal to the Pope, who are themselves wary of any group that even edges toward sedevacantism but who, in their personal lives, are uncharitable in practice toward other people including other Christians.
The example I have given before on this blog pertains to my experience as a widow. I used to be part of a small circle of ultra-orthodox Catholic friends (Daily communicants, experts in church history and doctrine, "heresy hunters," etc). After my husband's death they gave me no support except to "pray for me." They never once asked how I am coping, what my life is like, or even what his name or profession was(I met them about two weeks after his death). It is as though his existence has been wiped from history. I have faced near total social isolation and near financial ruin since my husband's death (long story) I have also been in and out of hospital with neurological problems. I mentioned it in passing to them once or twice. None has ever done anything to help, not even a phone call in hospital or a direct question about the status of what I am facing. Many are very happy people with strong family support ane material affluence.
The only thing that has gotten me through all these things is one very close friend (a lapsed Catholic who still believes who is the most charitable person I know) and the Grace of God, which has sent me protection and help in other unexpected ways, mainly from strangers.
I have written previously at this blog that I am on the verge of leaving the Church and sometimes even question whether this has taken away my Faith. I couldn't even "ask" any of the very affluent daily communicants I describe above for twenty dollars, and I guarantee you they would never offer it. But they would, of course, "pray for" me incessantly. And they are, of course, "happy and joyous" in their own lives and cannot understand why anyone else would worry or complain about anything.
The proper question here is not "why am I so bitter and judgmental" but rather why people who claim devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and to Holy Mother Church will lift not a finger to help someone in need, why they are so utterly indifferent to their brothers and sisters in Christ. It is a mystery with which I continue to grapple, but I believe its roots lie in pride (excessive self-love), which precedes lack of charity. Intellectual knowledge of Church history and doctrine, including knowledge about the works of mercy, is not a substitute for charitable actions.
St. Paul tells us that if we speak with tongues of men and angels but have not caritas we are nothing.
I pray to God for others - for the end of suffering in the world, for conversion, for specific help to those who are struggling like Mr Knight's ill and financially hurting father. I do what I can to reach out to people in need whenever I can but am limited myself in resources which I could use to help. I am hanging on to my white-collar job but it is under constant threat from "outsourcing" to third world countries. I am 45 years old and don't know where I will find work in this event for the situation for most technical workers is terrible for those 40+.
I know that my sentiments about this topic cause grave discomfirt to most Christians. Please forgive me if I have had this effect on you.
Luciana
Luciana,
You certainly have not made me feel uncomfortable and I am sorry that you are suffering so. I do understand what you mean and will tell you a little about myself so you know that I am not just saying that.
I'm older than you and "a widow of sorts". My husband divorced me many years ago under the "no blame" law here in Australia which only requires 12 months separation as grounds for divorce. He wanted to marry again and in fact has "married" at least twice since.
My youngest son is not long out of his teens. He was still small when I applied for an annulment in case God intended a second marriage for me so that my sons would have a father. The annulment was granted but I was too busy working and taking care of the children to meet anyone and so I have raised the boys alone anyway.
We never received any support from my husband and I cut our budget to the bone and bought an old house in need of repair to keep our costs down (the roof still leaks and that's not half of it) so I could work hours around the boys education as one had a disability (which happily we have pretty much overcome) and needed homeschooling. I became more worn out as the years went by. In the end my health broke down totally and I had to stop work permanently (heart, lungs, kidneys, joints all in trouble). I now suffer severe pain and breathlessness which limit mobility and am on supplemental oxygen part of the time.
I, like you, have felt the lack of charity from fellow parishioners - especially married couples who were considered pillars of the Church. I didn't seem to fit, perhaps because I was only half a couple and everyone else was whole and I made them feel uncomfortable.
But there really are good practicing Catholics out there who I believe you will meet in time as I have. You are still relatively young and I think young women without a husband are the most ignored by other couples. That was my experience when I was younger anyway.
I have met a few lovely, humble Catholics along the way who I treasure because they are true friends. One, younger than myself, is now a widow and has commented as you have of the lack of any real warmth or concern from fellow parishioners who used to welcome her and her husband into their circle before his death. She is now at work and trying to balance home and children and all her worries alone.
Our Lord must have felt very deserted too during his passion and dying hours on the Cross. I read somewhere that as He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane the night before He died, He would have seen all the souls for millennia to come that he would save by going through with his ordeal to the painful end, and also those who would desert Him.
I know you hurt but I don't think you will leave the Church because you would be deserting Him in the Blessed Sacrament who loves you so much and it seems to me that you love Him too.
I hope I haven't overstepped my place and offended you.
God Bless and Keep You Safe.
Sarah,
Thanks for the reminder - it is most welcome. We are of one mind on this issue.
Luciana
Luciana,
"It is a mystery with which I continue to grapple, but I believe its roots lie in pride (excessive self-love), which precedes lack of charity. "
Sadly, to me, it is not much of a mystery at all. the roots of this strain of self-focus and almost sociopathic indifference to the suffering of others, especially that of those who are close to them (and it IS indifference, is a shameful disgrace - as 'we'll pray for you' is in my experience code for 'we won't lift a finger to support you emotionally, physically or even take a genuine interest as that causes us to swerve from our duty to/vigilence/gatekeeping of Holy Mother Church, etc, etc.'. In my old Seventh Day Adventist circles, we had a name for these types, 'concerned Brethren' with whom I became entangled. and they did not one single thing to aid my poor mother in the last months of her time in the home with we kids (I couldn't do much due to my significant (Braille Reading; at that time, white cane using - now guide dog using - grew up fast after her death - a salient lesson for any parents of vision impaired children who read this blog) before her final illness forced her into permanent hospitalization nine months prior to her death. It was the Anglicans that came around, provided meals, whose pastors ensured she received the sacraments regularly in our home, who mobilized into action with far more love and charity than I have ever seen from a Seventh Day Adventist of the 'Concerned Brethren' variety! You see, tragically, these types are consumed with ensuring rigid 'hyper orthodoxy' in their own lives and vociferously calling attention to each defect of Holy Mother Church and those a few steps to the left of themselves, or considered by them, a few steps to the left. Seen it, lived it, know how distructive it is and am enraged by such indifference!
Matt 25: 34-40
acts 2: 42-47
James Ch2 in its entirety followed by ch5: 1-6 TILL I'M FLAMIN' BLUE IN THE FACE!! Don't care how irritated other readers become at me banging on about these crucial Gospel and NT injunctions because PEOPLE, THOSE THAT SHOULD AND KNOW BETTER ARE NOT - TO THEIR SHAME!!
what did Christ Jesus say?? 'You brude of vipers!! You fixate over the minutiae of the law while crushing widows into the dust with your heavy burdens'!! Now Matt 23: 23 shows us quite clearly that though these matters are important, they are useless if not practiced with real, practical, authentic, transforming charity!!! Luciana, I wish it were that I was not half way around the world from you; to come alongside if you would permit it, and walk the road with you, being there, to listen, to come to church with you, to be company and help when you wish it, to simply allow you to 'be' would be an honour. those that are grinding you down with their callous indifference obviously have not remembered Christ's word that the 'bruised reed' must not be crushed' nor the 'fading flame' snuffed out; woe to those that do so, either by sins of comission or sins of omition!!
In the end, anything I say is so much mist and flower of the field, because I cannot DO as I strain to do for you...unless you happen to be in Sydney, then, let us meet if you wish.
May our heavenly Father hold you in the hollow of His hand, dear sister,
Blessings,
Sarah,
Australia.
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Ann,
I posted to Luciana before reading your response. if you're in Sydney, or passing through, it would be an honour to introduce myself in person.
Re the observations made by yourself and Luciana concerning the uncharitable attitude of married couples to widowed or otherwise single women from their 30's upwards, I believe the root cause of this to be very pernicious; that of an almost subconscious (at best) feeling of threat even though such is clearly not the case. This has been noted by commentators in Anglican circles on www.sydneyanglicans.org in their articles on better care of widdows/divorcees. it is a distructive, uncharitable and unchristian disgrace! the Church is called to care for the widow and orphan; to come alongside in support - physical, emotional, psychological...that widows and other older singles are excluded like this, even harsher if they have children, is woeful! if any reader who is a member of a couple is guilty of this, pray for forgiveness and repent! I did not marry until 35, and as an older (not married in my early-mid 20's) single, felt the exclusion for the mostpart, especially in Sydney and the Central Coast!! Couple this with a disability, and one is reduced to the status of lepper! it takes faith of steel to withstand this; our own little 'chastizement' and this in the body of Christ!!
Blessings,
sarah,
Australia.
Thank you Sarah. If ever I am in Sydney again (I was born and raised there) I would love to meet you.
Ann & Sarah,
I just typed you long responses but they disappeared - there seems to be a problem with my blogger. I will try to get back to you later today or tomorrow. Thank you so much for your very wonderful replies which have given me much to think about, and to be grateful for. You Aussies are a force to be reckoned with that's for sure (LOL).
Luciana
I, like you, have felt the lack of charity from fellow parishioners - especially married couples who were considered pillars of the Church. I didn't seem to fit, perhaps because I was only half a couple and everyone else was whole and I made them feel uncomfortable.
Our Lord must have felt very deserted too during his passion and dying hours on the Cross. I read somewhere that as He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane the night before He died, He would have seen all the souls for millennia to come that he would save by going through with his ordeal to the painful end, and also those who would desert Him.
Ann,
What you have written above, your own story and what I have quoted above, has made me cry for it speaks directly to my heart. Thank you so much for taking the time to share this heartbreaking story. I can see that you understand my situation, for you have been there, and worse. In many ways what you endured from your husband is worse than a death, for it is what Hawthorne called the "violation of the sanctity of the human heart."
I would appreciate knowing more from you about how you kept your faith in the midst of the lack of support from parishoners. What kept you going? Did you ever doubt, did you have ups and downs? Were there signs that brought you through so that you knew you still belonged? Did you participate actively in parish life while your sons were growing up or was mass enough? Do you have close friendships now, or is your support mainly from family (including your sons)?
Anything you could share in this way would be helpful to me. It is clear from your posts you are a very strong, articulate, and thoughtful person. It is with this in mind that I ask if you could post about this matter here, it might of help to not only me, but also readers who do not post but are perhaps struggling with similar things.
I have participated in many blogs over recent years, mostly as lurker but sometimes as poster, in part because I am looking for information but also because I am seeking community and most especially insights into the struggles I have written about above. I have found nowhere on the web that gives me even a hint of either (have tried several Catholic sites/blogs, some of which led for a time to offline "friendships" that turned out false). I find myself here at this relatively quiet but very special place with very special people, and I hope this is somewhere I can rest for a while.
Blessings in the Lord,
Luciana
Sarah,
I am tired but I will try to respond to your most lovely comments Friday or Saturday.
Blessings in the Lord,
Luciana
Ann,
Before closing down the internet for the night I reread your post to me start to finish and saw the mention of your small group of friends - in my response to you, I did not take that into account when I asked about friendships. What friendships mean in the context of parish life, and larger Catholic life, is so much at the heart of what I am trying to sort through and have been for the last few years. I hope we will, together with Sarah, be able to discuss these things more here in the future, for it is a discussion I cannot find anywhere else.
To sum it up in a single phrase - I am very, very interested in Personalism (John Paul II - whose writings on Personalism brought me into the Church) but all that is talked about, all the websites and the books and DVD sets, are about Marriage - what I most wonder about now is this--what does the "dignity of the human person" mean in the context of friendship and community? Isn't this, not marriage per se, the subject of Christ's Second Great Commandment? This haunts me.
Luciana
Luciana and Anne,
It has been my experience, spanning three denominational settings, that the issue of firm, 'rain hail and shine' supportive and genuine friendship within the body of Christ between congregational members has NEVER been addressed from the pulpit or as the theme of a Bible study - not in terms of the second portion of Christ's two-fold command of love (oft quoted, disgracefully practiced) nor in terms of Galatians 6: 2. THIS IS THE GLUE OF COMMUNITY - COMMUNITY IN CHRIST - IN HIS BODY - AS BRANCHES OF THE TRUE VINE!! I have never heard a sermon on this, exhorting parishioners to support one another in a very real sense - physically, emotionally, and spiritually, thus fulfilling what we all are to do; the 'one another's' if one will. Much talk in terms of evangilising and sharing the gospel in SDA/Evangelical circles, but nothing on friendship and fraternal relationships as the glue of community; the vital twin of the family.
I have seen it in action in only one Anglican parish and in this, within only one very small group of men and women as an adult - the organic care members of my old Bible study group showed each other (they had settled in this part of Sydney post-war, had founded the little church, had their children together and grown up together. Except for one couple who were taken into this very special fold when they arrived in Aus from Europe in the early 70's, they were all in their 80's and three of their number have passed away over the past six years. they've been part of the same Bible study group for nearly 40 years and have also stood by their neighbours in natural organic community. this was largely disguarded by the boomer generation and has collapsed completely in this and the younger generations (reasons for this ranging from double income families to folk needing to slave away just to keep a roof over their heads and basic utilities paid - culture of materialism/individualism/secularism designed to fracture community, isolate and compartmentalise, thus making individuals easier to govern/control by the state).
From what I understand, the bond of friendship was considered virtually on parr with the state of marriage in medieval times, with formal Church ceremonies of oath and pledge that bonded brothers, and sisters, in the fidelity of friendship. perhaps the most outstanding example of this can be found in the OT account of David and Jonathan - tragic - Can't read it without tearing up. We've also lost the third form of human communion to a great extent within the Catholic Church; that of the vocational life of men and women religious (though this is beginning to rise again - contemplative orders are exploding though there is still a glaring need for traditional habbited active orders). Not a few of these openly take older women, women with disabilities, and some have no upper age limit; same goes for the male orders of religious brothers. Priests and bishops who may read this blog, remember the lonely and isolated who suffer grievously in the ranks of the Church and stand for it no longer!! There is so much work that needs to be done!
blessings,
Sarah,
Australia.
Luciana,
You said: "In many ways what you endured from your husband is worse than a death, for it is what Hawthorne called the "violation of the sanctity of the human heart." Thank you so much. You are the only person in all these years that has understood the impact.
I will certainly answer your questions and will be glad if anything I have to say is of help. I wouldn't get far today though. It is Friday night here and my mind is not robust enough at the moment; therefore I'll write again on the weekend.
I find what you have said about Personalism interesting and look forward to exploring this with you and Sarah.
Sarah,
Your description of "friendship and fraternal relationships as the glue of community" is certainly true, friendship being love in action.
Ann,
The exact quote I was thinking of from Hawthorne (which I was quoting from memory from 20+ years ago when I first studied "The Scarlet Letter" and what my wonderful professor described as "what Hawthorne believed was the Unpardonable Sin") is as follows, and refers to the character Roger Chillingworth, who sinned by 'violating, in cold blood, the sanctity of the human heart.'
You will understand why I googled it this morning in order to provide the exact quote.
Luciana
To the lovely Sarah,
I have received some upsetting news this morning and am unable to reply to your compelling observations. I will try to back to it later this weekend once I regain some balance, so please keep this old thread bookmaried for the moment.
With gratitude and Blessings,
Luciana
Luciana,
Thank you for giving the exact quote. I hope you are OK (I saw what you wrote to Sarah about upsetting news). I finally have my answers ready to your questions (Part 1 below) but please don't feel obliged to read or respond until you are feeling up to it. However, if you want to unload your troubles please write. Sometimes sharing makes the load lighter. I'll check this spot everyday. Until we hear from you again, God bless and keep you safe.
Answers to your questions, Part 1
You said "would appreciate knowing more from you about how you kept your faith in the midst of the lack of support from parishioners". Well, I can tell you of experiences that definitely made a difference. The first was a fair bit of isolation when a child and not much in the way of material possessions, and the second was the faith of my parents and watching my father die when I was a young woman.
I lost both my sisters and was raised from about age 7 as an only child. My father turned to drink and my mother to pain killers. When at home, where I often was because I missed a fair bit of school, I spent many waking hours alone even though Mum was in the house (She slept a lot; I think she was suffering depression). Anyway, the pope says silence is good and I had a lot of it. I mostly lived in my head - thought a lot (even today my youngest daughter tells me I think too much) - until Dad came home of a night. He brought the "sunshine": conversation, laughter and warmth, even though it was often late and he was under the influence of alcohol.
Although he drank to excess, Dad was almost always employed (he drank before and after work and in his lunch hour), was a very social and caring man who would go out on a limb to help anyone in trouble, a loving father although not a good provider, and never violent. His faith and morals were strong and he hated himself for not being able to stop drinking. Mum said Dad didn't have a drinking problem, and he never sought help. He thought he should be able to kick his alcohol addiction alone but never could. For all that, he and Mum taught me my religion and exhibited much faith. We walked 2 or 3 miles to Mass on Sunday and Mum and Dad made certain I made my 9 First Fridays.
Not unexpectedly, Dad died relatively young from cancer related to his drinking. I was a young woman at the time (early 30s and married with children). His pain was severe during his dying months but when he prayed his Rosary each night the pain eased and he could sleep. He received the Last Rites and was in his dying agony when he began praying his nightly Rosary in a bare whisper. About half-way through the third decade the pain subsided, his face relaxed and he looked younger than he had for some time. He also began looking a little above the end of his bed at something we couldn't see. His gaze was steady and he continued his Rosary through to the end looking at this invisible person or persons who I believe were Our Lord and Our Lady. He was totally at peace from this time on. When he finished the Rosary with the Hail Holy Queen he kissed the crucifix as he always did each night and that was his last act. That was the moment he left this life and entered the next.
Summary: (1) I think that isolation in childhood made rejection by fellow parishioners in adulthood less shocking although no less hurtful; (2) Want was something I was used to and the want of support was just another want; and (3) Seeing my father die a holy death - Our Lord and Our Lady taking him home - cemented my faith.
Part 2 following (I thought the whole lot might not go through in one post as there may be a word limit)
Luciana,
Answers to your questions, Part 2
You asked: "What kept you going?" Looking at the Crucifix and imagining what it must have been like for Our Lord hanging there. My sufferings were clearly nothing in comparison.
When family visited and could supervise the children for an hour or so, I was able to go to church and spend time with Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. Looking at the huge Crucifix that hung above the tabernacle there, tears would come and perspective return.
You said: "Did you ever doubt, did you have ups and downs?" Oh yes! But somewhere under my doubt, I knew better.
One day when doubt had crept in and made a nuisance of itself for a few weeks, God blessed me with a visit from the Jehovah Witnesses. They made arrangements to come back each week and each week I researched and prepared replies in readiness for their forthcoming visit to show them where they were wrong. In the end, with each side unsuccessful in converting the other, they and I called it quits. But then I realized I hadn't lost at all ... my faith had been challenged and reinforced.
Part 3 following
Luciana,
Answers to your questions, Part 3
You asked: "Were there signs that brought you through so that you knew you still belonged?" Yes, when "brothers and sisters in Christ" ceased being an abstract concept and became a concrete experience during a retreat.
I was very, very down when the opportunity presented to go on retreat for a weekend well away from my parish. My mother, who lived some distance away, had agreed to mind the children and so I set off on my long car trip, first to my mother's with the children and then more driving to a part of the state I had never been. I got lost on the way and arrived at the retreat centre well after dark but was taken in without any bother.
It was my first retreat since secondary school. I had been wary before this because retreats in my diocese often involved enneagrams, eastern mysticism and all that but this retreat was not one of those. On my retreat Our Lord was at the centre of every day: Mass, Adoration and Benediction, as well as prayers in the chapel before the Blessed Sacrament periodically through the day and into the evening, with Confession available when the priest wasn't on the altar. It was wonderful; an oasis in a spiritual desert.
I experience a definite pull when kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament, the longer I am there the stronger the pull and I don't want to leave. Some were staying on after the weekend and others coming. There was an opportunity to extend to the end of the week and I grabbed it after phoning Mum to ascertain if the children could stay the extra time. I don't remember how I managed the cost financially as I had no savings but I did somehow. This retreat was an answer to prayerful longing.
Unexpectedly, part way through that retreat week all the major hurts in my life (the loss of my husband, coldness of fellow parishioners etc) surfaced rather publicly and I was embarrassed as the tears came. Then an older woman wrapped her arms around me saying it was perfectly alright; that we can't feel God's embrace and so we need human arms to hold us on His behalf. How right she was!
The retreat community had come from different diocese, cultural backgrounds and walks of life yet in that community I wasn't odd. Our hearts were similarly attuned - I think because of the time spent with Our Lord (literally hours every day). It was as if our persons joined to Him at Baptism were receiving a fresh transfusion of His Love penetrating us from the Monstrance or Tabernacle, reinvigorating our relationship with Him and animating our fragile, ordinary human love with His. I feel this had to be the case because the respect, the kindness and joy I encountered there I have never encountered to that degree anywhere else. This is how our parishes are meant to be. Our Lord is in the tabernacle in every one, but he is ignored more often than not, and I think this is the crux of the problem.
Liberals used to sprout about the coming of universal brotherhood, believing it could be achieved by purely human means. It can't, since the Eucharist Heart of Jesus is the source. If only every parish would begin perpetual adoration - it would only mean signing up for an hour's adoration once a month more or less depending on the size of the parish - then they would be transformed. [I'll get off my soap box now.]
Part 4 following.
Luciana,
Answers to you questions, Part 4
You asked: "Did you participate actively in parish life while your sons were growing up or was mass enough?" From time to time I participated in parish life; for example, I helped raise funds for the new church. I was a catechist at one stage, fully supported in my efforts by the assistant priest but then parish politics kicked in and I received flack from the parish priest after the other catechists made trouble for me with him (The other catechists were all living with their spouses, had financial security and lovely homes and you would think this would be enough to make them content, but no, I had better qualifications and was getting more done and this irked them terribly). Their animosity made my catechetical work - preparing public school children for First Holy Communion and leading a family catechetical programme that I had introduced in the parish - uncomfortable and increased the difficulties of the assistant priest; so I saw out the year and quit so as not to be a source of division.
To my shame, there were even periods - not while I was a catechist but when cut off from parish life - when I became so disheartened I even stopped going to Mass until I pulled myself together again. And this was shameful because the Mass is our opportunity to not run away but stand with Our Lord under the Cross and receive the graces He suffered and died to give us. Moreover, I was responsible for getting my younger children to Mass.
Part 5 following
Anne,
No words - simply, no words! Your account has moved me profoundly this Sunday morning. All words seem utterly suppurphluous and redundant...you are a blessing, sweet sister!! Thank god for your witness and ministry, for that is what your acount is - a testament to God and for us all.
Luciana,
Dear sister in Christ, May our heavenly Father hold you in the hollow of His hand and bear you in His bosom through the sorrows that assail you presently; please let us know how you are doing when able. if you need silence, we shall be honoured to give it to you. If you need to be in company, we shall be honoured likewise to give it.
Blessings,
Sarah,
Australia.
Ann,
I have read through your posts on this thread, literally riveted to my computer as your extraordinary testimony unfolded. I am unable to respond more specifically now but hope to be able to do so in the future. I am grateful that you have shared this with us. I hope in the near future we will able to discuss many of the points you bring up.
Sarah, dear Sister in Christ,
I feel the same gratitude to you for all you have contributed on this thread and elsewhere at this blog, and hope to continue this discussion soon.
I went to mass today at a different parish, as I am currently seeking a parish where I feel more at home. While participating in the liturgy I found myself vexed by many things -the altar girls in jeans and trainers, long-haired altar boy who looked like he was on his way to a heavy metal concert, the uninspiring sermon, the lack of reverence in general, the horrid music, the orchestration of clapping when the children perform readings, etc. These are incidentals, but I still feel a need to find a more reverent liturgy. In such circumstance I always do focus on the key point Ann highlights so eloquently above: This is the Church; Jesus is present.
Thank you also Sarah for your words of encouragement and support for my current difficulty, and also for joining the Novena we started today. I am hoping others will join the novena as we progress in hope with this very important petition.
Looking forward to speaking more in the near future about all these matters.
Luciana
Dear Sarah, your enthusiastic and loving heart is very special. Thank you for being you: for not letting you sufferings in life sour you but refine your beautiful soul making it joyful and a treasure of love for others.
Luciana, I will write later but am low on energy at the moment (not processing oxygen well and therefore can't maintain sustained concentration for too long). Don't worry it's quite normal given my medical condition and happens often but then it passes. I am looking forward to talking with you and Sarah again soon and exploring our faith as we walk together. I am grateful for the insights and encouragement you and Sarah give me.
Dear Sarah, your enthusiastic and loving heart is very special. Thank you for being you: for not letting you sufferings in life sour you but refine your beautiful soul making it joyful and a treasure of love for others.
I concur with all you have written here Ann - she is a very special lady.
That above post was from me (Luciana), I forgot to sign.
To Ann and Sarah, my Sisters in Christ. I am going to suggest moving this discussion onto a different forum in order to save poor Mr Knight the drudge of having to resurrect an old thread. At the moment I don't have the time to set it up but I suggest I should set up a private blog (when done I will send you both the password - I believe I now have your email addreses from my novena blog) where we can discuss these issues in more depth. I thought of an email list but I like the blog idea better because all the information will be kept in one place (avoiding "digital sprawl"), and it is something that in the future we might wish to make available to other readers.
Let me know here what you think of this idea, whether good or bad. Perhaps an experiment but one that costs little or nothing to set up.
From time to time (although not often) I run across random blog comments on the issues we have touched on above, and often wish to reach out to the writers of the comments.
More details to follow and I will update this thread once again when I have them. Thanking our gallant warrior and comrade-in-arms Mr Knight for his infinite patience here.
Ann, dear sister, I hope your current bout of health struggles ease up very soon.
Luciana
Thank you Luciana, I am improving.
I support your blog idea - sounds good to me.
Luciana & Sarah,
I would like your permission to send you via email the information on the blog I have set up as discussed above. I have your email addresses from the posts you entered on my Novena blog.
If you would reply to me positively either on this thread or on my Novena blog I would be most grateful (in the latter case, I will not approve the comment so it will not show publicly on the blog).
Many thanks,
Luciana
Apologies, the above post was meant for ANN and Sarah!
Luciana
Yes Luciana, please do send the blog information to my email address. Thank you so much for going to all this effort. You are a very dear lady and I am very grateful that we have met.
Luciana,
It would be an honour to participate in this blog; please excuse my late response as have been away out of internet/mobile phone range since this Tuesday last.
May you be richly and wonderfully blessed,
Sarah.
PS: Please give God the glory; I'm naught but for Him and any good in me is not myself but our Creator (as I am wont to obnoxious and impatient personality of my own accord).
Here's a great homily :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltTd81XpDnc&feature=youtu.be
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