THE CATHOLIC KNIGHT: So begins phase 2 of the slow motion train wreck that is the U.S. Catholic Church. Phase 1 was completed last year with the "American Catholic Council" designed call into question the liturgical and doctrinal reforms of Pope Benedict XVI. Now we enter phase 2, wherein Modernists priests are beginning to rally together and form their own group. It's not that such a gathering of priests is bad -- far from it -- it is rather the issue they are gathering around. Right from the start, the stated purpose is to foster a vision of Vatican II that is opposed to the pope's vision. I have no hesitation in saying the pope's vision of Vatican II is the ONE AND ONLY AUTHENTIC VISION there is. Everything opposed to it is rebellion, and while they certainly will not say it openly, this group "The Association of U.S. Catholic Priests" is indeed a rebellious organisation. It is rebellious against the pope and every bishop in union with his vision of the Second Vatican Council.(TBO) - But with the tradition-minded Pope Benedict XVI at the helm of the 1 billion-member church, there's been a slow shift toward returning to some of the old practices and structure.
A liberal "Catholic" mass in which a female "priestess" presides.
This is a vision of Vatican II shared by many Modernist Catholics.
That's a concern for some clergy.
This week, about 240 priests from around the country are meeting at Saint Leo University in St. Leo for the inaugural assembly of the newly formed Association of U.S. Catholic Priests. Among its goals: To be a "voice of hope" and to "celebrate and implement the visionary concepts of Vatican Council II."
The Rev. David Cooper, a Milwaukee pastor and board chairman, says keeping the spirit of what was intended by the council — which opened in October 1962 and concluded in December 1965 — is urgent, given the direction the church seems to be taking.
"We're not positioning ourselves to be a controversial voice, but a collaborative one," he says. "With fewer priests and smaller dioceses spread out, you can feel isolated. This gives us a place to gather and share our concerns and goals....
....So the association will adopt a resolution asking that the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) at Georgetown University do a nationwide survey on the reception of the new missal.
Besides providing a forum for priests and serving as a "spiritual and psychological advocate," the association also intends to support female church colleagues, some of whom are now under scrutiny by Rome.
This week, representatives of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious met with Vatican officials to discuss the growing tension between the two sides. Church hierarchy has accused American nuns of flouting core doctrine and taking an overly liberal "feminist" bent, and said it will reform the group — which represents 80 percent of Catholic sisters — to adhere to church teachings....
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Rebellious organisations can only produce one thing -- schism! Now it may not happen overnight. These things usually smoulder for a while before actually bursting into flames. It may take years before we see this organisation for what it truly is -- in all its rebellious glory. Nevertheless, the associations it is already making should raise a few red flags. The LCWR is most certainly a rebellious organisation, beyond any shadow of a doubt, which will undoubtedly lead to schism of more than a few religious sisters (nuns). The Association of U.S. Catholic Priests has already voiced its support of this organisation over the Vatican, as well as a vision of Vatican II that is opposed to the pope. Can there be any doubt what this organisation is, and what it intends to do? In the short-run it will attempt to strong-arm the U.S. Catholic Bishops into compliance with its will over and against the Vatican. If however, they should fail in that objective, and they will for the most part, then they will pave the way for phase 3 of the impending schism in the U.S. Catholic Church. What is phase 3? Simple, it will be the alignment of a few bishops with the intentions of The Association of U.S. Catholic Priests over and against the Vatican and the U.S. Catholic Bishops Conference. Once that happens, all the pieces will be in place, and schism will be inevitable. We only need sit back and watch the whole thing unfold. I say just give it a three to five years. That's all the time they really need.
26 comments:
I am a revert back to the Church and am stunned by the Protestantism of it, the lack of respect for the Eucharist, female Eucharistic ministers / altar girls, etc.
I grew up in the Roman Rite, but am highly considering joining the Byzantine or Latin Rite as I feel God is leading me that way.
It's sad how secular the Church has gotten. But what's even sadder is the pride of all these women wanting to have male dominion and authority over others in the Church.
Indeed, women and men are equal in the eyes of God, but we play different roles in the Church and ours as women is NOT up there teaching men and acting like an Apostle.
I enjoy your blog very much Sir Knight. Thank you :)
Dawn in Texas
Mr Knight, unfortunately the bureaucrfacy known as the USCCB is also a major part of the problem, filled as it is with leftist dissenters on both theology and morals. Your time line of 3 - 5 years is a bit optimistic, given the current dust up with the LCWR you mentioned before. All of the pieces re fitting together, including unbridled hatred of this pope, the old rite and catholic doctrine. The ONE (you read that right ONE) new priest ordained in NYC has already felt the wrath of the bureaucracy, being warned that "permission" must be sought to say the TLM (obviously attempting an end run around SP).You are right that an "american catholic church" independent of Rome will form in much less time than 3 to 5 years. They may or may not wait out the current pontificate before making their move into formal schism. B16 has already predicted a smaller church. I say, let it happen, get rid of the heretics and we will then see which catholics will be the ones remaining loyal to Rome. I bet it wont be many. Whole parishes, whole dioceses will be split much as happened under Henry VIII or with Soviet seizure of uniate churches in the old USSR. You may not recall "coffee table" masses as I do, but now it will be the true catholics who will be reduced to TLMs in homes, etc. And with the govt breathing down the church's neck, it wont be pretty. Pray for the holy father that he "does not flee for fear of the wolves" Pete Frey
More sad news. I've always considered the Orthodox churches as a safe haven from the Liberal onslaught that is coming.
I agree Dawn. Here in Australia most of the RC churches I go to could almost pass for a Protestant Chruch. Of course major city churches and cathedrals have what i consider everything that I love about traditional Roman Catholicism (windows, candles, organ music, marble etc) but few of the suburban ones do. Makes me consider even more seriously, attending a Tridentine Mass. Of course there aren't many churches offering those here in Sydney but I know a few. Have you thought about attending these services Dawn? What city and/or country do you live in?
Stephen
Sydney
My apologies Dawn. I just noticed that you are in Texas.
Dawn, I think what you mean by "Latin rite" is that your main form of the Roman Rite is the Extraordiary form for celebrating the Mass.
Stephen,
Come to Charbels!! :-) this evening we had a fabulous mass, rosary, adoration and Chaplet of Divine Mercy in celebration of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. I'd walked only half way across the courtyard before hitting a wall of incense!! - beautiful! This was a modestly attended but wonderful time of faith and strengthening in the Lord; the prayer-leader for Rosary etc is a magnificent young man who is ablaze for Christ; our 'Handmaids' group took care of the adoration. the only TLM's I know of in Sydney are the FSSP in lewisham and the SSPX about 20 minutes away at Rockdale; if there are others in South-Western Sydney within 20 minutes of the Roselands shopping centre that you know of, I'd be interested to pop in if I can't make Charbels.
I thank goodness for our ST. C's priests and other fantastic young priests like a certain Fr. A. I have mentioned here; you likely know him; very straight up and down, but incredibly kind; initials 'A.B.' on fire for our Lord and Lady and the best roman Rite priest I have met (though the other Fr. A. I have mentioned here as well (Fr. A. C. to differentiate) is also pretty bloomin good; another young comparitively recently trained priest. Don't know much about the scene elsewhere.
Blessings,
Sarah,
Australia.
PS: wonder if the lib priests here in sydney will try to pull the same stunt as has commenced in the US.
Sad...very sad that St. Leo, just 30 miles up I-75 from me, is hosting this rubbish.
Like I told Dixiegirl this morning on the SNN site that there are many enemies our Church has, but the most dangerous ones are the ones within.
Um...any indication of the theme of their meeting is illustrated by the following:
"Our two plenary speakers are Fr. Anthony Ruff, OSB, monk and liturgical theologian from St. John Abbey in Collegeville, MN and Mr. Richard Gaillardetz, Professor at Boston College.
Mr. RICHARD GAILLARDETZ will speak on "The Historical Impact of Vatican II on the American Church and Priesthood".
Fr. ANTHONY RUFF, OSB, will address: The New Roman Missal: What is the Problem, and What Can We Do About It? This talk will explore the many issues raised by the new missal, both the translation itself and the process by which it was produced. What does all this say about ecclesiology (centralism and collaboration), consultation of scholars, inculturation, inclusivity, and ecumenism? As a response, what can we do to serve the Church now and going forward? Fr. Ruff will also lead a break-out session on: Continuing the Conversation. As a former collaborator with ICEL and an insider to the translation process, Fr. Anthony will dialog with participants about what this translation is all about."
The only "problem" with the New Roman Missal is that these commie-New Agers don't like it. Boston College...figures...Yankee liberalism at it's finest...not!
On their main page it says, "Our hope is that US priests will join in this effort in sufficient numbers that the first general national meeting programmed for June, 2012, will justify our optimism that the initiative of a group that began with "Vatican II Priests" can be helpful for its members by being a VOICE FOR PRIESTS." Um...aren't the bishops considered priests too?
One of these dissident priests is one too many. Pray for the Holy Father and Cardinal Dolan.
To be Catholic one must accept the doctrinal teaching authority of Popes but not necessarily administrative decisions of Popes, especially if those decisions are contrary to established Catholic tradition. Various saints such as St. Catherine of Sienna, while respecting the Popes' authority, sought to correct their bad administrative decisions; one example was St. Catherine urging the papacy to return to Rome after 70 years in Avignon France. Popes John XXIII and Paul VI made administrative errors in convening and then reconvening the 2nd Vatican council because at that time, as CIA records
now reveal, there were many KGB agents that had infiltrated the Church in order to weaken it from within by mixing Marxist ideas with theology. The council happened when the Church was most vulnerable to communist infiltrators on the inside. VII was sabotaged in its focus but especially in its implementation. KGB agents that defected to the United States have attested to this before congressional committees. It is now up to the current leadership to correct those errors and we should support them.
It has become clear to me that the reason why we are so frustrated with seeming "lack of action" on behalf of the pope and orthodox bishops in regards to these Modernist priests and groups, is because the Vatican is engaged in a "war of attrition" with them. There may very well be a concern among the pope and orthodox bishops that formal excommunication may result in a situation similar to the Protestant Revolt 500 years ago, but compounded with an alternate episcopal structure similar to the Orthodox schism nearly 1,000 years ago. Thus what we may end up with is a parallel "church" with bishops having apostolic secession but the rebellious spirit of Protestantism. To avoid this, the Vatican (since the reign of John Paul II) has pursued a strategy of waiting them out, trying to save the minds and souls of the young will allowing the rebellious baby-boomer generation to grow old and weak. We are now reaching that point. Yes, they are starting to do exactly what the pope and orthodox bishops predicted they would, but now they are doing it as grey-haired senior citizens with less influence. From now on, their numbers will only decrease (as they begin to die off) rather than increase as they would have during the 1980s and 90s. So the pope and orthodox bishops are now in a position of strength, having most of the youth (who remained Catholic) on their side. It is now a battle of the young orthodox verses the old heterodox. Now that's not to say you can't find young heretics within the Church. You most certainly can, but a lot of those kids are just as likely to attend some other church (or Protestant denomination) should the going get rough for them in the Catholic Church. The kids who are staunchly Catholic these days, are also orthodox, or at least lean in that direction when forced to choose. The pope and orthodox bishops are now in the strongest position they've been in since the last 40 years. Even though it may not seem like it. If or when the crackdown comes, it will be the young and strong verses the old and weak. Whatever schismatic "church" the Modernists are able to form now, will be plagued by all the problems of the elderly, and any youth who follow them will have split loyalties.
The New Roman Missal: What is the Problem, and What Can We Do About It?" Laughing hysterically Sir Knight. There is NOTHING wrong with it, and Fathers, there is NOTHING you can do about it, if you dont want to accept it, please try St Henry VIIIs anglican church down the street.
Unbelievably some priest started a web site "Why dont we wait" (on the new missal) Predicitons of disaster, the sky falling, Vatican II being repealed were some of the less ridiculous comments. Pete Frey
Confederate Papist, I am considering attending St. Leo's University online within the next couple of years. Is this sort of thing typical occurrence there? Is St. Leo's known for being heterodox?
Very sad about this University...
Worse, it's where the deacons for our diocese receive training.
Very frustrating to be in the midst of such ultra liberalism. +
Your June 15 comment said "apostolic secession" instead of apostolic succession, which may lead to unfortunate misimplications....
The pic at the top of the article was utterly appalling. It looked... unCatholic (pardon my sectarian language, those of you who are more nondenominational). The Church needs to roar like a lion and assert its rightful authority, expel the Modernist heterodox influences (and maybe a few F***m*s*n infiltrators if necessary), and restore that which was lost. Last Sunday was Corpus Christi. May the Corpus Christi remain one, may East and West and the independent ones be rejoined into one Flock, one Body of Christ, without dissension or schism.
AD IESV PER MARIAM,
Filipino Catholic.
P.S. Thanks for your prayers, Herr Knecht. On the verdict day of the impeachment trial, Chief Justice Renato Corona was found guilty of failing to disclose his full assets, liabilities, and net worth. Sentaors' vote was 21-2 in favor of conviction. He is the first Chief Justice of the Philippines to be impeached.
Not to worry too much. Our holy mother Church WILL last until the end of time. The modernists have had their day and are fading; there is none to take their place because they have helped so many leave the Church.
By all means find the Extraordinary form of the Mass or a parish that offers the Novus Ordo properly (mine does).
B.G. Bass -
I don't know the answer to that for sure. As Caroline said, our diocese's deacons go there for training. The students I know who have taken courses there seem to be grounded in our faith as are the deacons I have met.
My only other exposure was some retreats with the Knights of Columbus and Middle School Edge, and we did interact with the monks there.
I do presume this was booked and accepted innocently by the St. Leo staff without realising the agenda of the group...unless I hear otherwise.
UK Catholic says:
Whilst being fan of lively balanced debate within the church I have to say that I deplore all this talk of the American church forming a schism in the near future. Pope Benedict has asked the American church to focus on revival and renewal, not strife and division. In the UK we are still living with the consequences of schism (courtesy of Henry V111), and be warned that it is not something you should embrace so blithely in America. As Catholics we are commanded by Our Lord to love and forgive. That means that we must love one another no matter what..... and NOT form camps. Labelling fellow Catholics as Traditionalist and Modernist is appalling and so NOT Catholic. Please desist in seeking such divisions and focus on unity.
Yeah I know about the Rockdale and Lewisham ones sarah. been meaning to try the Lewisham one for a while. Have looked at their website and they sound great. I will eventually make my way there. It's hard to always do what you plan. You know what they say about the "best laid plans". The next best thing like I said are the city churches. When I can I like to go to St Marys Cathedral. The Mass there (even if it's N.O) males me feel like I am in a Catholic Church. St Patricks at the Rocks is also quite good.
Stephen
PS Sarah
I have only been to Charbels once back in 2010. It was for a christening so I am not overly famialiar. I got a lift there and it is usually hard for me to get to. I will make it to Lewisham though.
Stephen
Dear Catholic Knight,
I live in Tampa very close to St. Leo, I asked our parish priest about the meeting of priests and he told me it is not true but an attack on faith and desire to scare us. Pleae tell us how do you know this happening and in this case how do we know what is true and what is not.
Anonymous, I'm afraid your priest must be misinformed or else unaware. The formation of this organisation and its intentions was reported by multiple Catholic news sources and their website is up and running. Do a google search to check and see for yourself.
How do you like that rainbow stole?
I bet the national catholic distorter loves this aging group of dissenters.
Thank you for bringing this bullsship to light! So many common Catholics who have decent parishes to attend simply don't know the terrible things that happen in parishes.
The best way to combat these subtle and not so subtle evils is to speak plainly about the abuses in our liturgies, both in the misused words and other divergences from the rubrics.
I am not sure that I like the idea of a strictly American association of priests. The Catholic Church is organized by dioceses and metropolitans, not by secular country boundaries. I could see an organization by culture or by geography, say a North American association or an East Coast association.
The Catholic church is a universal church, not a national church. We are divided up by parishes, dioceses and rites, but not by nations, at least not formally. Catholic Conferences are a relatively recent creation (most post-1960s). Informal did of course exist, including precursors to Catholic Conferences, because there was a need.
We should continue that pattern. Formally, the Catholic Church is universal and doesn't have national structures. Informally, because there is a practical need, we have such structures.
A nation-based priests association has not developed over 200+ years. We should develop one now.
A retiring USCCB policy director notices an imminent schism, too.
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