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| Archbishop Allen H. Vigneron |
The threat comes from Progressive Modernists within the U.S. Catholic Church. These are "Catholics" who view the Second Vatican Council as some kind of watershed event, a rupture with historic Catholicism, and a license to go forward with various "reforms" and innovations all in the name of the "Spirit of Vatican II." These people, both clergy and laity, have ruled over various parishes and dioceses in the United States like dictators. They've suppressed those who clamored for a return to tradition and promoted those who abused the liturgy and twisted Church doctrine. Their height of power was in the decades immediately following the Second Vatican Council (1970s - 1990s). Now that their influence is beginning to wane under the pontificate of Benedict XVI, these liberal dissenters of the historic Church have seen the writing on the wall. They know their days are numbered, and so in a desperate attempt to preserve what they have worked so long for, and re-energize a new generation with their heretical zeal, these people are now attempting to create a rival council to the pope and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. It's called the American Catholic Council (or ACC), and it's first meeting is scheduled for June 10-12 of 2011 at the Detroit Convention Center and Detroit Marriott Renaissance Center.
In response, Archbishop Allen H. Vigneron has issued the following statement condemning the American Catholic Council. Here are the highlights...
(Archdiocese of Detroit) - ...Although their stated purpose is to "respond to the Spirit of Vatican II by summoning the Baptized together to demonstrate our re-commitment and the documents issued by the American Catholic Council offer some valid aspirations for the Church, in fact, the goals proposed are largely in opposition to the teachings of the Second Vatican Council and the Holy Spirit, which inspired the Council.The Catholic Knight wishes to publicly thank the good archbishop for this strong stand against the American Catholic Council. Indeed, he had to respond this way, as the event is being hosted in his own backyard. Anything less than what was mentioned above might have been viewed as cowardly acceptance of the "council's" mission. The good archbishop rose to the occasion and courageously defended his diocese from this threat. What is needed now is a nationwide response, from every Catholic bishop in the United States, to put down this schism before it has time to spread.
The archdiocese wishes to commend and embrace all true efforts at Church renewal - the American Church Council's agenda is not such an effort. Some of the advertised speakers and groups organizing the effort espouse positions which are clearly contrary to Catholic faith, leading to alienation and estrangement from the Church. The Archdiocese of Detroit cautions any Catholic against participating in the American Catholic Council local listening sessions and national gathering in June 2011. Catholic parishes, schools, and institutions are not to host any meetings, gatherings, or "listening sessions" associated with the planning of the June 2011 American Catholic Council. Priests, deacons, and ecclesial lay ministers will want to avoid lending support to such a misguided effort. On behalf of the archdiocese, Archbishop Vigneron has asked the organizers to cancel their plans for this national gathering that distorts the true Spirit of Vatican II. He asks us all to pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that we may embrace authentic development of faith and morals, and shun efforts which threaten unity.
read full statement here
These people are the final result of a three-decade long experiment in leniency and innovation. The so-called "Spirit of Vatican II," which takes upon itself initiatives not called for by the Second Vatican Council, has reached it's ultimate conclusion - SCHISM! This schism however, does not come without a list of heresies to accompany it. It is a list that I dare say nearly half of all baptized Catholics in the United States, who's consciences having been dulled by three decades of poor catechesis and liturgical innovation, will most certainly find appealing. It is a list that I fear will soon hit mainstream, and reverberate throughout this nation, pealing one parish after another away from the magisterium of the Church.
What these people in the American Catholic Council want has already been invented. The structures they advocate already exist. It's called The Episcopal Church. Likewise, once the ACC gets off the ground, it will simply be reinventing the wheel, and the results of this wheel will be identical to those found in The Episcopal Church (or TEC), namely female clergy, gay clergy, gay marriages, acceptance of abortion and birth control, as well as the embrace of Socialism in the form of "Liberation Theology." Some form of unification between the ACC and the TEC will likewise be inevitable, especially after those adhering to the ACC have been excommunicated from the U.S. Catholic Church.
Sadly, there is virtually a 0% chance that the ACC meeting in June will be canceled. Though the good archbishop's stand against the organization was strong, there was not much he could do outside of banning his own people from being a part of it, and prohibiting diocesan property from being used for it. However, the ACC never intended to use diocesan property, and the good archbishop cannot restrict people outside his archdiocese from attending. That's another reason why we need a nationwide condemnation from all the U.S. Catholic Bishops before it's too late. Mark my words, these people will meet, and they will promote heresy. Likewise they will grow to lead others away from the magisterium of the Church. The only variable that exists is "how big" will their movement become. Strong nationwide action against it now will pull a lot of wind out of their sails. Failure to act now will only result in larger repercussions later. For the sake of unity and orthodoxy within the U.S. Catholic Church, let us pray our bishops act quickly.
37 comments; post here:
While Abp Vigneron is right to warn of these left over 60 hippies, not to worry. Their time is over, provided bishops like him take the effort to uphold catholic teching and to expel these dissenters. Pete Frey
They're not "dissenters" Pete, they're "Protestants," by the very definition of the word. It's just that they seem to be the last to realize it.
It seems to me that the CDF should go back to acting and condemming these heretics in the way the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition used to...! I know you are worried for the US Catholic Church, Sir Knight, but for us Catholics outside the US, your country as a whole has always been secularist, immoral, materialistic and even obscene... I am sorry to say that the phrase US Catholic seems almost an oxymoron to me... (I wonder if the US Catholic Church would have survived without Hispanic Immigration... ) So, even if HALF of all US "catholics" abandon the Church, that would represent a mere 3% of all Catholics worldwide! I, in fact, look forward to the schism! Let this new purged and smaller church become a holier Church with the addition of the Anglican Ordinariates!!!
right on Roberto, and yes, Mr Knight of course they are non-catholics (even protestant seems too diginified). They are CINOs Catholic in name only. I appreciate the clarification. Pete Frey
A query to the American 'Catholic' Council: If you view Vatican II as "a license to go forward with various "reforms" and innovations" all in the name of the "Spirit of Vatican II", pray tell the faithful what Vii said of the Latin (hint: the Ordinary), which was erased for 40 years, beginning the day after your effeminated bishops returned from Rome?
ACC is another American presumption that its constitutional system works everywhere. If the ACC wants a "Constitutional Catholicism" then it should absorb TEC and elect Katherine Jefferts-Schori as Popessa!
The ACC talks of "rights". Now the Bible itself tells us that because of our fallen nature, we have lost these rights that Christ restored to us.
The ACC will do a great deal of harm. They will sound 'reasonable' to so many marginal Catholics that don't know their faith as they should. The CINO (that is a really great way of saying it all) will secumb to the drivel they put out.
While we have Epicopalians searching for the Truth and finding it in traditional Catholicism we have factions within the Church trying to water down Catholic doctrine and protestanise whatever they can.
It is up to our Bishops to speak plainly and forcefully on this. The faithful within the Church need guidance and to a large degree education from the pulpit as to what True Catholocism is.
mark carney
As a 61 year old born and raised in the Catholic Church, I personally attest to the Divine move of the Holy Spirit of God through Pope John XXIII and Vatican II. Sadly, the Catholic Church only grudingly tolerated Vatican II and the Charismatic movement of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and minds and lives of the faithful. Our current Pope did everything he could to kill the Vatican II Charismatic movement, and now with the reintroduction of the Latin Mass and many other changes in the liturgy he will continue to seek to destroy any remnant of the move of the Holy Spirit through Vatican II. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit is controlled by no human being. This organization is seeking to right what it's members perceive as wrongs. Sadly, they either think there is a real chance for reform or they simply are seeking to sensationalize their agenda, which is still largely hidden. The only think for real Christians who follow Christ and attend the Catholic church to do is to pray, seek the LORD's will, live in obedience to His Holy Word, and pray for the direction, wisdom, and healing of the Holy Spirit to fulfill the will of God in all of our lives, including those in the ACC.
I've been a parishoner of a Catholic Church where the priest supports the beliefs fo the ACC. Division between the faithful and the "Protestants" has changed the family feeling of our parish. Heresy to the church is much like AIDS to the body. About 300 families have left scattered to area parishes as a result of his cussing, gay marriage and heretic homilies (miracle of the loaves and fishes was that the men shared), etc. Persecution of the faithful is his ammo at this time. After being a target of his persecution, with a heavy heart I left 3 weeks ago. It can't come soon enough that modern day heretics are excommunicated.
Anonymous, I commend you for your courage in leaving your abusive priest behind. Now I'm going to ask you to do two things as a followup.
First, you have to understand that what you suffered was spiritual abuse. By that I mean the priest is abusing his ministry, and the faithful are being made to pay for it. So I am going to ask that you write a letter to the bishop explaining the situation, and then carbon copy that letter and send it to the Vatican CDF, stating at the bottom of the letter to the bishop "cc: Vatican CDF." This is the ONLY real method of recourse we have to stop the abuse of others.
Second, I am going to ask that you find a new parish. If you're having trouble, try thinking outside the box. A Traditional Latin Mass is one possibility. An Eastern Rite Catholic parish is another possibility. So is the Anglican Use, or even a monastic community somewhere. Or maybe if you're lucky you can find a local parish that is more to your liking. Whatever you do, don't stop looking (every single Sunday) until you find something.
It always amazes me how the word 'heretic' or 'protestant' is used when talking about the laity. I have heard some seriously trite comments from both clergy and laity in my 35 years as a bishop .... all needs to be taken with a lot of salt. Perhaps if everyone stopped calling people names and actually LISTENED to them things would be different.
What I see here is part of an ongoing discussion between liberals and conservatives. I had a Church history professor who compared the difference between liberals and conservatives to the process of making pictures invented by George Eastman and proliferated through the company, Eastman Kodak. Namely the one is but the negative of the other.
No one profits when we neglect the Gospel, favoring discussons about how we do things. The proponents of the American Catholic Council have their point. Those who favor more traditional processes have their point as well. In which ever camp we find ourselves, Jesus asks us to deny ourselves and take up our own cross and follow Him.
To the anonymous "bishop" above...
Heresy is heresy sir, and it doesn't take more than a third-grade understanding of the Catechism to see that what the ACC is advocated in pure heresy on many levels. A real shepherd would defend his flock from such things, not tell us to "listen to them."
Sorry, your excellency but I don't buy it. We can "listen" to their problems, and offer our sympathy, prayers and even help. One thing we cannot do however is radically change Church teaching to accommodate their own misguided "solutions."
As the Bishop recommends, I have listened to the other side and am appalled at much of what they say. We are not a 'broad church' in the way that the Anglican Communion is, we either believe what the catechism states and the Pope teaches or we do not and, if we do not, then whatever we are, we are NOT Catholics. This unfortunately includes some in the hierarchy and many priests and laity.
Since when does cautioning against an action mean a condemnation? Does the Church "caution" us against joining the masons or condemn it? Does the Church caution us against procuring and abortion or condemn it?
Unfortunately we have here a bishop who only wants to do enough to make it look like he cares. Why does he not condemn them with the full force of this authority and prohibit attendance under pain of mortal sin? Because he is really not much different than they are:
"that we may embrace authentic development of faith and morals" Since when do faith and moral develop. This is the same modernist heresy that has spawned the American Catholic Council. It's already been really condemned by St. Pius X.
I read the ACC is expecting 1500 attendees. 1500???? My mid-sized suburban parish has more than 1500 members. It's doubtful this thing will have much of an impact when it's not even the size of an average parish.
link to Detroit News article
Communism is alive and well, not just among these people but also inside the catholic church in America that believes in Marx's favorite atheistic utopia -distribution of wealth-under the guise of "social justice."
If core Catholic doctrine as traditionally understood is wrong, as the ACC says, then why be Catholic?
Go somewhere else where people share your views. New Agers for example, believe that all morality is personal and relative. A new age group wold be fine for the ACC members to join. Why try to change the Catholic Church?
"To live is to change, and to change often is to be perfect" - John Henry Newman
To be able to change and adapt with the times is a sign of growth not vulnerability.
Dialogue within the hierarchy of the Church is necessary, especially in light of such abuses of power which resulted in the sexual abuse crisis, not to mention the often hidden financial abuses.
Keep in mind, that which is done to the least of our brothers and sisters is done unto Christ (Matthew 25:40)
Dialogue and inclusion should be welcomed as we are a universal Church.
Vatican called for Freedom of the Spirit renewal. The Catholic Church today is not "free" at all. I do believe most adults are capable of making good decisions after reflection, they don't need the archbishop to tell them what to think and how to live. God help us as our church is truly in deep trouble. Those in the ACC are Catholic, not heretics. They have human rights..........and will abide by them.
The ACC seeks to legitimize their eforts because they are scared to go it alone outside the official boundaries of the church. Hence the movement to drag the rest of the church down with them. But heresy is heresy no matter how you package it. They don't even have the guts to simply go it alone or link up with the episcopalians. Truly sad.
You are really scary people! I truly think you are very misguided and if Jesus were in you midst you would be castigated for your lack of compassion and faithfulness to His teachings.
The Church should not conform to the changes in society. Yes the church has problems, it did not handle the sexual abuse well, yes in some churches there may be problems with fraud. But these can be found in many places in society itself. Lets not forget the Boy Scouts own sexual abuse. People are coruptable, it is a sad fact. If we were not so easily led astray, it would not have been necessary for Jesus to die at all. These ACC members if they do get what they want and the Church conforms, there will be another mass leaving the church, those of us who do not welcome their change. The laws of god are not easy. We may not agree with them, and if we don't those are ususally the rules that we ourselves have a problem with because we don't want to obey them. A priest is the head of that certain church, he is at the members beck and call. A father/husband has a responsibility to his family. It is not fair to ask a married man to choose between his family and his responsiblity to his church. It will happen. I believe that it is in all religions. Rev. Ministers whatever you want to call them, There is and will always be a time when a church responsibility will conflict with his family and he must choose. Not everyone is meant to be a priest and I believe it is for that reason. What would have happened if the church changed its laws when certain people where in power. If you do not agree with the Church, then you will do well somewhere else. We must stand behind our Church, it is not perfect, but its teachings are. I am a a catholic born and raised, I had a crisis of faith years ago was even questioning the church and its teachings. My grandmother told me pray the rosary for direction. I did and my faith was restored. I will not lose my faith again and no one will take it from me either.
George asks... What did Jesus do?
He saw His Jewish faith steeped in rules and laws that were supressive to the majority.
It would have been much easier for Jesus to simply agree with the Jewish hierarchy. He was willing to die for the sake of spreading His message that love and compassion are His wishes; not rules and censure
Yes, He named Peter as the head of the early church, yet Peter was reluctantly open to change when others came to him with the radical concept of allowing "gentiles" to be baptized.
Today, the hierarchy, bishops and priests make up 3% of the Catholic church; the laity is 97%. We all want freedom for those in Libia, Syria and Egypt to have a voice in influencing their leadership.
How can you want less for your fellow Catholics?
Those at the ACC want the Church to more closely follow what Jesus taught, not all of what 500+ years of male hierarchy came up with. Most at the ACC favor adding single women priests, not married men, as a solution to the clergy shortage. Most at the ACC believe in the RC "core" of transubstantiation and therefore do not want to be Episcopalian. All at the ACC are pro-life, but many recognize the unfortunate need for safe and regulated alternatives. All at the ACC sing "All Are Welcome" without being hypocritical. I was there.
Anonymous, where did Jesus teach about "adding single women priests"? To have faith in Jesus the Christ is to ultimately trust His Church, as it is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit in the matters of it's Faith, including the Bible itself given to us through the Church. The notion of women ordination is permanently closed within Christ's Church. Either start willing your conformity to Christ, or face the only other path available. The ACC is indisputably outright heretical against the teachings of Christ. You have been warned. The choice resides with you. Stop following the teachings of man of the ACC, and turn back to Christ and His teachings in His Church.
Dear Kenneth,
Where in the Scriptures did Jesus state that only men could be priests or disciples? Jesus first revealed His true self to a woman (the woman at the well who had been married multiple times) and Mary stayed at His side during the entire crucifixion event while the men all left in fear!!!! Please, before making staements denying women Christian equality, check your source material...for me, that is the Bible, not the Vatican. Should be for all Christians, Catholic or Protestant alike! Like a parachute, minds don't work when they aren't open!
Dear supporters of the ACC. Thank you so much for your comments here, as in leaving them you've validated my above point perfectly -- namely that you are Protestants.
Having been born and raised a Protestant, and converted to Catholic in my 30s, I have a little experience in this area. You see folks. I was a Protestant minister before I became a Catholic layman, and I can attest, with absolute certainty that you are of Protestant mind and heart. I know Protestants like the back of my hand. I not only was one, but I led them as their shepherd for a while.
You see Catholicism is not just about the Bible, as you so frequently like to point to. Rather Catholicism is about both Scripture and Tradition. In fact the Bible really is nothing more than a cross-section of written Tradition. It must be interpreted in the broader context of Apostolic Tradition, and that in turn must be done only by those in authority with apostolic succession. The Scriptures point to Tradition and the bishops, while the bishops point to Scripture. This three legged stool is the faith of our fathers and apart from this there can be nothing but Protestantism.
You point to women as priests and yet you have no Biblical justification for it. The Apostolic Tradition militates against it, and then you fault the bishops of the Church simply for keeping with Scripture and Tradition? Interesting. How very Protestant of you.
Yes indeed, your minds are open. They are open to the teachings of Luther, Wesley and Robert Schuller. You have been completely and totally absorbed by the Liberal Protestant culture of the United States. You have become one among them, through and through, and yet you think you can deceive others into following you by insisting on calling yourselves Catholic. It's not going to work folks. You've been exposed for what you are. Sadly, you yourselves will not own up to it. The only people your fooling now are yourselves.
Not to worry. You're in good company with my former comrades in the Protestant world. When you are finally successful and splintering off a schismatic group from the US Catholic Church, the Episcopalians and Evangelical Lutherans (ELCA) will come running to your side to propose inter-communion. Then you will finally be at peace and at home.
...Oh and by the way, don't think that just calling yourself "Catholic" makes it so. The Anglicans have been calling themselves "catholic" for over a century, and that doesn't make it so for them. That's one reason why so many are now converting to the pope's personal ordinariate for Anglicans. They're tired of trying to be "catholic" while playing by Protestant rules. You folks in the ACC have chosen the opposite path. That's fine. Go your way. You'll go with my blessing knowing that you've been warned. I do wish however you would own up to reality and stop playing fantasyland. You are no longer in good standing with the Catholic Church. At the very least you are already in schism - at least in heart - and fundamentally at the core you are very Protestant through and through. The sooner you own up to that the better, for your own sakes.
"check your source material...for me, that is the Bible, not the Vatican"
Oh really?? Since you reject the Church through which the Bible came to us and written by the hands of those in that same Church through the authority that had been given to that Church, and the interpretation of it thereof by that very same authority guided by the Holy Spirit, here is God's command to you word for word from the Bible left uninterpreted by any source outside the Bible (remember, you have declared your source material to be solely the Bible, disunited from the authority instituted by Christ Himself as well as the tradition handed down the years of the Gospel itself, so you can not be a source yourself meaning you must read this exactly as it says with no interpretation or 'buts'):
"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty."
-1 Timothy 2:11-15
You have defeated your own purpose. I would say it is more likely than not that most of your exposure to the Bible is that of reading from activist sites and/or from other posters on what to say to others to fight for so called "women's christian equality" secular agenda with points abused from the Bible without much regard or time spent with the Bible itself as the complete source from which you claim to get your sole directives, but then I wouldn't be absolutely sure.
Disclaimer: No offense to Catholic Knight and other ex-protestants intended, as well as those current protestants today with sincere veneration of the Bible and worship of God with sincere respect and trust for His will over our own, who are truly in their current condition today due to the current confusion and ignorance germinated by the sins of those of the past and present (from Catholics as well as Protestants.)
Oh, I think I made a rhyme-pun which was not intentional nor noticed while writing that last post of mine at the time, if anyone wonders. Either way, I don't think I will post anymore on this specific thread. There isn't really anything more that can be said here that hasn't already been posted, that the various Anonymous's would even seriously reflect on.
These dinosaurs had their day in the late 1960s-1980s and this is their last dying gasp. I wasn't around in those days but I remember the 1980s well. Their only "living" legacy is the sanctuaries they trashed. Contrary to their ridiculous claims, the Vatican II generation and the "vision" did nothing to clean up the massive problem of abuse in the Church. Indeed, the Vatican II years and afterward probably only made the situation worse. National Catholic Reporter itself even admitted that a huge portion of participants at the ACC were over 65. These people are a waste of time.
I am from Michigan, and of course this hasn't even made the news. However, the ACC is wrong to embrace these beliefs ( Female priests, abortion, homosexuality, etc.). And, the Archbishop is suspect if he thinks Vatican II is good. Look at all the problems that have happened since.
Catholic Knight. You must not write angry and hurtful words that may upset and injure our protestant brothers and sisters in Christ. Please do not champion the Catholic Church you profess to Love in this way. This is not the Way and the Truth and the Light........Put down your shield and sword Catholic Knight. Did not Jesus Himself at the very point of His betrayal in the garden forbid Peter from using any weapons in His defence.........dont use words to hurt those you disapprove of
Anonymous,
Why don't you just leave the Catholic Church led by the Pope and join the Episcopalians or some heretical splinter Catholic sect?
Once a Catholic always a Catholic. Its not for any of you to tell another Catholic to leave the church . Shame on you.
Much of the tone of the above conversation is aggressive and intolerant both of other religions, and of differing views within the Catholic Church. It is not what Christ would want of His Church. Even when blogging we owe a duty to His higher Authority and higher standards. Remember the parable of the good shepherd? John 10, 1-18 - Jesus Himself is the good shepherd and he says - “I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd".......Note it is HIS VOICE they will listen to NOT YOURS......... If you wish to speak in defence of Christ you must do so with His permission (pray first) and in a way that has a keen awareness that He too is listening. Some of you are so like Peter. Rash of speech and quick to act. Jumping out of the boat to walk on water then sinking before you can achieve your objectives. I remind you again that at the point of betrayal Peter was reprimanded by Christ for his violent defence to an attack on the person of Christ. Christ does not wish to be defended by you with excommunications and harsh words. The Catholic Church is not an exclusive “club” where only those who agree with certain views are allowed to stay. We are a universal church of many nations, cultures and approaches. This is what Christ means and WANTS when he talks of His other flocks. How does your constant dividing of people into camps help Christ to reach His objective of “one flock one shepherd”? How does your use of the word “protestant” as a form of abuse, help the Spirit to move where is wills....reaching out to our non-Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.... gathering the one flock.....The parable shows that Christ wants the other flocks to be brought IN to the fold NOT ABSUED AND DERIDED as “Episcopalians and heretics”. The message of the Divine Mercy is that all sins can be forgiven and we are taught that “with God all things are possible”. You must have faith and love not doubt and hate.... You are in danger of becoming like the Pharisees who believed that they alone were the keepers of the Mosaic Law (The Torah) .They believed that having guardianship of this law was proof that they were the chosen people...... We all know what Christ thought of the Pharisees......so a little more tact, humility and politeness in your future conversation please. Up the game please.
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